Climbing Harnesses

[grandpa]

Something I've been wondering about for a LONG time is why are rock climbing harnesses not similar to the harnesses that steel workers, etc use? You know the ones with "D" rings in the middle of the back that support the body after a fall. I attended Gravitec's climbing school (Bainbridge Island) last summer and VSI's climbing school sometime before that, and everything I've been told indicates that falling, and/or hanging from a waist belt (as opposed to wearing a full-body harness) is inviting an early death.

 

It seems to me that climbing above the last protection, wearing a belt type harness is inviting a serious problem after a fall, even assuming the protection holds.

 

Clue in a newbie someone?

 

Dave

[billcoe]

Something I've been wondering about for a LONG time is why are rock climbing harnesses not similar to the harnesses that steel workers, etc use? You know the ones with "D" rings in the middle of the back that support the body after a fall. I attended Gravitec's climbing school (Bainbridge Island) last summer and VSI's climbing school sometime before that, and everything I've been told indicates that falling, and/or hanging from a waist belt (as opposed to wearing a full-body harness) is inviting an early death.

 

It seems to me that climbing above the last protection, wearing a belt type harness is inviting a serious problem after a fall, even assuming the protection holds.

 

Clue in a newbie someone?

 

Dave

 

I have faith in your ability to think this one through on your own.

[genepires]

falls in a construction site tend to be more "static". There is a shock absorbing lanyard but I would bet that this is alot more static like than a long stretch of climbing rope with the 8% stretch. A fall for a construction person is technically, most always, going to be a high fall factor. Usually between a 1 and 2 fall factor. With a standard harness and a rather static belay, there would be a sudden stop and therfore a hyper extension of the spine. Example-your waist stops but the back continues downward while facing upwards.

So the this rational leads one to think about climbers falling near the belay? OSHA and LNI regulate the requirements. They try to reduce risk, even improbable ones, to create a injury free workplace. Also since it is a government department, they tend to make new regualtions regardless of need. Also, have you seen some of the workers? they are BIG and woudl prbably get hurt. Climbes tend to be fitter and probably less injury prone.

Construction guys can use a yo-yo "belay" device which should be like a constant top rope. A normal harness would work for these but then they would need two types at the site and then people would not use the proper one. There is the potential for swinging falls though.

I have used both types of harness at the same time on a site because I couldn't handle the full body types. Oh no, here comes LNI!

[genepires]

oh if the connection is in the back, then in the fall the body compresses as if doing a situp. back OK!

[grandpa]

falls in a construction site tend to be more "static". There is a shock absorbing lanyard but I would bet that this is alot more static like than a long stretch of climbing rope with the 8% stretch.

 

Ok, I can see that. I did not know about the amount of stretch a rope exhibits.

 

Also since it is a government department, they tend to make new regualtions regardless of need.

 

I know that to be the case, I work for "the FEDS".

 

Thanks for the well thought out reply.

 

Dave

 

 

[chris]

Construction harnesses also have the conection in the back to keep the front (where tools and material have to be handled) free from obstructions.

 

I think its also simple to say that climbers take a bigger accepted level of risk.

[montypiton]

imagine a lead climber having to hunt for his belay cord (attached high in the back, on an OSHA standard fall-arrest harness) to clip protection; or imagine trying to operate a belay/rappel device that is attached to your harness approximately between your shoulder blades. The fact is, a mountaineering/climbing harness must work for more than just supporting the body in a fall. the front tie-in facilitates management of rappels and belays, and clipping protection. The risk of folding the climber backwards in a hard fall, or overstressing the diaphragm in a long hang, can be mitigated by adding a chest harness, and many rescue teams stipulate the use of chest harnesses for high-angle rescue operations where their personnel hang for extended periods (hours at a time, in some cases)

 

 

for what it's worth, when I've worked as the safety officer on commercial construction sites, I've had no difficulty getting OSHA/WISHA inspectors to accept recreational climbing gear for use as fall-arrest systems. they need to see the engineering data on the climbing gear, but once they can establish that the gear is "equivalent" to OSHA certified stuff, they're happy to approve its use. (at least, the ones I dealt with were...) Many manufacturers (Petzl, Yates, Lowe(in the old days)) sell in both the recreational and industrial markets, so the inspectors are seeing familiar brands on the recreational gear, and I'm sure that helps. Bottom line? A recreational climbing harness will work for a tree-surgeon or a roofer, but the rope will often be in your way. An OSHA approved fall-arrest harness could be used for rock-climbing or mountaineering, but your tie-in would be awkward to manage, at best. It's kinda the same way with shoes, if you think about it...