JayB Posted May 24, 2007 Share Posted May 24, 2007 http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/05182007/watch3.html Watch the vid past ~ 2 minutes to see the racist-neocon-hatemonger that is Bill Moyers.... Or read the transcript. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olyclimber Posted May 24, 2007 Share Posted May 24, 2007 what are you talking about? that was a bizarre piece, to be sure, but are you saying that by having that guy on his show he is endorsing his view point? i know moyer is known to be a flaming liberal, but I didn't get that he is racistblahblah from this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars Larceny Posted May 24, 2007 Share Posted May 24, 2007 So, because Bill Moyers reports on this issue, he's a racist hatemonger? Naw, Bud, that B you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snide Posted May 24, 2007 Share Posted May 24, 2007 jayb is pointing out that the views voiced by Bawer in the interview would be labelled racist if they came from say, a Republican presidential candidate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashw_justin Posted May 24, 2007 Share Posted May 24, 2007 I can't watch those damn plugin videos on linux so I was forced to read. Are you referring to this bit? BRUCE BAWER: Well, it's the-- multi-culturalism works if the cultures that you're talking about are all cultures that respect basic human rights, that respect freedom. If you're dealing with a culture that is essentially intolerant of other values, and that is oppressive itself, then multi-culturalism causes problems. BILL MOYERS: So you're saying we can't treat that ideology, or that culture, as equal to one that espouses democratic values? BRUCE BAWER:Well, we certainly can't allow that culture to thrive in our own backyard, in our own countries, because it's not only unfair to the people living within that subculture, who are being oppressed, but it's in the long run, it poses a danger to all of us, because of the demographic situation. BILL MOYERS: But aren't we talking about only five percent of Europe's population? BRUCE BAWER: We're talking about a population that is growing very quickly. And it doesn't take long for five percent to turn to l0 to l5 to 20. If you have, you know, a native population that is decreasing quite rapidly, and an immigrant population that is growing quickly, you're going to see great changes very rapidly and that's something that people sometimes don't understand so well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olyclimber Posted May 24, 2007 Share Posted May 24, 2007 Well, mind reader, then tell us why Jay titled the thread "Bill Moyers: Reactionary Hatemonger"? That is, other than to get a rise out of people as Jay is so well known for doing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmuja Posted May 24, 2007 Share Posted May 24, 2007 I think JB is trying to point out an "apparent" irony in Bill Moyers (liberal) doing a show on the rise of intolerant Islamic radicalism within a tolerant liberal society. I agree with JB in this case, sort of. Im a lefty, not a liberal, therefore I don't tolerate intolerance the way liberals do. "Tolerance" btw is stupid term that certain "liberals" (another over and mis-used term) and many left leaning people buy into until it bites them in the ass the way radical Islam may end up doing in the long run. Personally, I know and actually am quite fond of many muslim people - but I fucking can't stand their demented belief system any more than I can any that of say fundamentalist Christians. I might love the people, but I will neither accept nor tolerate their twisted religion or repugnant, misogynistic practices and brain washing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olyclimber Posted May 24, 2007 Share Posted May 24, 2007 Anyway...i don't think the issue is race here...it is culture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olyclimber Posted May 24, 2007 Share Posted May 24, 2007 It is an interesting problem: what if you have an intolerant majority in a democracy? can you still call it a democracy? but then, we have had that in the US for long time...albeit a much more tolerant intolerance... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-spotter Posted May 24, 2007 Share Posted May 24, 2007 HELLO CLIMBER FRIENDS I THOUGHT ISLAM WAS A RELIGION NOT A RACE OR CULTURE? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmuja Posted May 24, 2007 Share Posted May 24, 2007 "intolerant majority in a democracy?" depends on what they decide to "intolerate" They, (we) must decide what they are about as a society and keep to those BASIC values. It could go like Germany in the 30's or the other extreme I suppose, but understanding clearly what you or the newly arriving cultural influences are about is KEY to maintaining those values and thus heading off the extremes before they overwhelm the society. Standing behind a veil (pun intended) of "Im so tolerant and accepting of all cultures" etc.. is like climbing Hood while ignoring the weather forecast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olyclimber Posted May 24, 2007 Share Posted May 24, 2007 OOOOOHHHHH!!!!! GOT ME DRU! GOOD ONE! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmuja Posted May 24, 2007 Share Posted May 24, 2007 "HELLO CLIMBER FRIENDS I THOUGHT ISLAM WAS A RELIGION NOT A RACE OR CULTURE?" Ask Arabic muslims that question. Much of what gets pushed and adopted all over the world as "Islam" is Arabian culture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olyclimber Posted May 24, 2007 Share Posted May 24, 2007 so you have to draw the line. but easy to be on the wrong side of it...what will happen in Europe when an intolerant majority comes to power will be interesting. very unlike our own situation...people coming up from Mexico and Central America seem to be pretty tolerant. In fact, it is the opposite...they tend to be "liberal" as opposed to holding very conservative values like the religion of Islam. the whole thing is a pretty interesting. both situations are dramatically shifting the political landscape. my guess is that Europe would love to trade situations with us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashw_justin Posted May 24, 2007 Share Posted May 24, 2007 depends on what they decide to "intolerate" They, (we) must decide what they are about as a society and keep to those BASIC values. Another reason why we shouldn't abandon the U.N. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmuja Posted May 24, 2007 Share Posted May 24, 2007 "people coming up from Mexico and Central America seem to be pretty tolerant." They percieve themselves generally as powerless right now so they have to be tolerant. Once they achieve critical mass they will be indignant assholes like the rest of us. America is a delicate ballance of freedom, power and fear. It works better in some ways than any other place on the planet - politically speaking. As Ivan pointed out a while back, one of the good things we got going for us is a tradition of immigration and assimilation of some basic values. As long as those basic values are not fucked with too harshly the great experiment will continue. Right now though were being tested by 2 extremes, Bush..ism and Binladen..ism imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olyclimber Posted May 24, 2007 Share Posted May 24, 2007 Don't forget Bill Moyerism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmuja Posted May 24, 2007 Share Posted May 24, 2007 I likes Bill, 'sept when he got stuck on that Joseph Campbell neo-spiritual psycho babble crap for a while Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olyclimber Posted May 24, 2007 Share Posted May 24, 2007 he has some interesting guests. on the last show the woman had some good points...then she said that hiphop is going to change the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmuja Posted May 24, 2007 Share Posted May 24, 2007 ".then she said that hiphop is going to change the world.." Ok, the other day I met this dude who is a professional break dancer. He actually makes a living at it but he has to travel all over the rest of the world to do it. He told me that break dancing only "died out" in America, and thats its still big shit - along with hiphop culture- thoughout much of the rest of the world. Who'd a thought? So maybe we'll finally win their hearts and minds through rap. I mean, you gotta always look to the young (younger than me) for whats really happening next.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-spotter Posted May 24, 2007 Share Posted May 24, 2007 Shoegazer emo is DEFINITELY going to change the world. Almost as much as black metal did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olyclimber Posted May 24, 2007 Share Posted May 24, 2007 The documentary "Footloose" details how dance and rock music changed the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Off_White Posted May 24, 2007 Share Posted May 24, 2007 I think we should always refer to JayB as JB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-spotter Posted May 24, 2007 Share Posted May 24, 2007 Who's brown? James Brown! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted May 24, 2007 Share Posted May 24, 2007 how could a man who was the voice of lbj ever have his morals called into question?!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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