Jason_Martin Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 I don't know if we have any vets who read this board...but I am personally aware of at least two incidents where large dogs went completely snowblind and had to be carried out. Both incidents took place on Mount Baker within a week or so of each other. I know that some dogs are bred for the snow -- think sled dogs -- but my gut instinct is that if we have to wear sunglasses in order to avoid serious eye damage, then what type of damage does the average dog recieve in a bright snowy environment? Especially a dog that is used to the dark cloudy days of the northwest? I've got to think that dragging dogs up above treeline in a bright and steep environment isn't very humane... Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DPS Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 (edited) My very thought exactly, of course my dogs wear sweaters when it gets below 50 degrees outside. Edited February 20, 2007 by danielpatricksmith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snugtop Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 This thread is so old You otter be checking Spray: http://www.cascadeclimbers.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/649442/Main/48938/#Post649442 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpine_Tom Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 I asked my vet about this, since our now-deceased dog used to love getting out on the glaciers. The vet checked with a doggie ophthalmologist who said that dogs don't get snowblindness the way people do. If they did, wolves, coyotes, etc would have a tough time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason_Martin Posted February 20, 2007 Author Share Posted February 20, 2007 I asked my vet about this, since our now-deceased dog used to love getting out on the glaciers. The vet checked with a doggie ophthalmologist who said that dogs don't get snowblindness the way people do. If they did, wolves, coyotes, etc would have a tough time. Those animals spend all of their time below treeline. In addition to this they're outdoor animals. They never spend any time inside at all. My suspician is that some breeds do okay, while others do not. It appears that your dogs never had a problem, but that doesn't mean that no dog will have a problem. The incidents I refferred to in my initial post were definately snowblindness. The dogs were whining and placing their heads on the ground while putting their paws over their eyes. They wouldn't move in either case. And in both cases the owner had to drag them down the mountain on a piece of plastic or a tarp. I have to wonder about the idea that your dogs loved to get out on the glacier. I suspect your dogs just loved to get outside, but you loved to be outside on a glacier so that's where they got to go... Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PLC Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 A lot of dogs have natural "sunglasses" - their masks work in much the same way as black tape under the eyes work for football players. A black dog like a lab should not have any problems with snow blindness, nor should a dog like a husky which has a pronounced mask. Additionally, dogs don't have very good eyesite to begin with and can generally get along fine even if they're "blind". From my experience, I'd say thousands of dogs climb volcanoes around here each summer, and if snow blindness was really a problem we'd all know it by now. I've personally taken four different breeds of dog to the summit of a volcano on bright clear days, and none of them had any problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PLC Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 Dogs' eyes can be affected by reflected sun off the snow," said Dr. Jennifer Fontanelle, a veterinary ophthalmology resident at CSU. "But I'm not sure we clinically recognize 'snow blindness' in dogs." Dogs prone to inflammatory eye disorders, such as pannus, are particularly sensitive to the ultraviolet rays in sunlight, she said. Some breeds predisposed to pannus are the German shepherd, greyhound, Belgian Tervuren and Belgian Malinois. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 Just found out about the accident this morning involving “the dog”. Sorry I was out of town. I know this dog and his master. Good friends of mine. I am so glad they are ok. Way to go velvet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpine_Tom Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 Those animals spend all of their time below treeline. In addition to this they're outdoor animals. They never spend any time inside at all. My suspician is that some breeds do okay, while others do not. It appears that your dogs never had a problem, but that doesn't mean that no dog will have a problem. The incidents I refferred to in my initial post were definately snowblindness. The dogs were whining and placing their heads on the ground while putting their paws over their eyes. They wouldn't move in either case. And in both cases the owner had to drag them down the mountain on a piece of plastic or a tarp. I have to wonder about the idea that your dogs loved to get out on the glacier. I suspect your dogs just loved to get outside, but you loved to be outside on a glacier so that's where they got to go... Jason The dog in question was a rescued stray, and I always suspected he was part coyote (long legs, bushy tail, very canny) and that may be why he didn't seem to have a problem. He had very good eyesight, and that's part of why I worried and asked a couple different vets about it. Since snowblindness is basically a sunburn of the retina, it does seem like it ought to happen to dogs as well as people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wfinley Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 Doggles are the answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figger_Eight Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 The dogs were whining and placing their heads on the ground while putting their paws over their eyes. Maybe they were just really embarrassed...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmncwrtr Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 This is a portion of an article from cbs2chicago.com that was warning against mountaineering with dogs: "The rescue prompted climbers to chatter on mountaineering Web sites such as cascadiaclimbers.com about the wisdom of bringing a dog on an expedition. Climbers noted that some dogs are bred for snowy environments, but a few wondered about potential risks for the animals." I think they meant to say cascadeclimbers.com! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 I think that the misspelling may have been intentional and is in fact a good thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 A lot of dogs have natural "sunglasses" - their masks work in much the same way as black tape under the eyes work for football players. A black dog like a lab should not have any problems with snow blindness, nor should a dog like a husky which has a pronounced mask. Additionally, dogs don't have very good eyesite to begin with and can generally get along fine even if they're "blind". Snow blindness is not just an inability to see. It is intensely painful! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dechristo Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 A benefit of a sufficient quantity of dogs taken climbing is dogshit functions on the bottom of crampons as effective anti-bot plates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 I assume you have tested this in your own back yard under a variety of snow conditions. Which works better, Labrador or Poodle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-spotter Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Blue bags for Fido! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dechristo Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 I assume you have tested this in your own back yard under a variety of snow conditions. Which works better, Labrador or Poodle? It's not so much about breed as it is about diet. A 65% ground chew toy to 35% high-fiber mix works best providing a plastic/rubber surface with adequate binding agent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnr Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Something is missing here from these posts. Under technical conditions - i.e. if you are harnessed and roped in, or if you are wearing crampons, or on any snow slope ~40 degrees or more, no dog will understand the meaning of belay, assuming that you could effectively belay them. And remember also that because the ecological niche that their canis ancestors occupied was as a predator capable of pursuing larger game by skimming over the surface of crusted snow, their paws evolved into a remarkable design that minimizes the chance of breaking through a crust as easily as whatever they were pursuing - which has an obvious downside that allows them to slide more easily on a moderate slope. This is very stressful for the animal. My 7 year old female Siberian is clearly well equipped for winter conditions, is conditioned for climbing and altitude, has the trademark Siberian black mask over her eyes, with white under (which I agree helps with snow blindness), respects exposure and in fact shys away from it, and in fact has summitted St. Helens with me. But I wouldn't try to do anything technical with her, because I've noted while hiking open slopes in Mt. Hood forest that if she senses marginal traction underfoot, she panics and wants to run to a vegetable belay, where she knows she can get traction. There are many other reasons not to put a dog through this situation, e.g. they don't know self-arrest, they don't understand "rock", they might get stepped on by a cramponed boot, they might pull on a rope at the wrong time, etc. - but this is the main reason. I don't want to expose her to this kind of stress and risk, so she stays behind when I go on technical climbs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clavote Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 A benefit of a sufficient quantity of dogs taken climbing is dogshit functions on the bottom of crampons as effective anti-bot plates. But this only works below 32 degrees F. Or the shit smells bad. Works good, smells bad. I have never seen sled dogs wearing any type of sun protection. They mushers wear eye protection but never the dogs. I think their fur provides some measure of protection against non-image forming light that reflects off the snow. I forgot my sunglasses once on a hood climb. I summited without sunglasses but when I got back to the car I was in pain for the night. The thing that worries me now is that I have increased my chances to get a nice cataract later in life. Something to look forward to I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plexus Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 This is a portion of an article from cbs2chicago.com that was warning against mountaineering with dogs: "The rescue prompted climbers to chatter on mountaineering Web sites such as cascadiaclimbers.com about the wisdom of bringing a dog on an expedition. Climbers noted that some dogs are bred for snowy environments, but a few wondered about potential risks for the animals." I think they meant to say cascadeclimbers.com! It's Chicago!! I grew up there. There is maybe 1 in every 100,000 people there that has been higher than Skokie. And people that write for web sites of TV stations are on the lowest level in the newsroom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coug4 Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 I took a group up Adams a couple of summers ago and on the way down passed a couple of guys with their dogs. We were just below the treeline on the tourist route. It was disturbing to see the dogs run from shady spot to shady spot. There was plenty of water around and it wasn’t that hot (70’s I’d guess). It was clear that the dogs were severely stressed from the above treeline experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-spotter Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 Dog climbing Australian Gully on Joffre... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wfinley Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 Don't forget aboout the classic 1979 dog team ascent of the West Butress by Susan Butcher, Joe Redington, Brian Okonek, Ray Genet and Robert Stapleton. A few of the dogs made the summit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ambys Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 This is one of the few cases where a dog's IQ is higher than those of its owners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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