Pickets

[Rodchester]

Never used the Yates, but to a certain degree a picket is a picket.

I used to have 2 three foot SMCs, now I have four 18 inch SMCs and I love them. The rock in hard snow conditions.

For regular winter Cascade concrete, I use flukes and two foot MSRs.

The only time you need three footers is when there is a SHITLOAD of snow that is very loose and powdery...not very often in the Cascades.

Try this...go out and properly bury a two footer as a deadman. take a huge slide on it, get five guys to pull on it. It will not budge it it placed correctly.

When driving the picket longways into the snow... the holding power will depend on the snopw conditions......

Place them correctly with no "leaver" action when it loads and it should hold your mom.

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Have a nice day.

[DPS]

AJ,

Carlos owns a Yates picket, you may want to give him an email. I have found 24 inch MSRs to be enough picket for the Cascades. For soft, uniform snow I find flukes to have superior holding power, though.

[Alex]

AJ, the only time I have thought the long pickets would be required was Alaska, where the snow is so cold and fluffy at certain elevations that you need to dig in and bury a picket pretty damn deep to make a decent anchor. We brought only 2 foot MSR pickets there in 98 and realized that for the ridges they were not going to work. Solo central.

In the Cascades, the 2 footers work in almost all situations. Maybe on Rainier up high in the winter they might not?

In the Canadian Rockies, the 2 footers work because its a dry range and there is seldom more than a foot or two of fresh snow to deal with, so you can always dig a little for consolidated snow.

I personally prefer flukes to pickets, though outside of Alaska.

[Colin]

I have always used MSR pickets, but they are really annoying for racking (either on your pack or on your harness). In general, pickets aren't all that useful. When the frozen water is soft enought to use a picket, it usually isn't steep enough that you need one (there are of course exceptions). For this reason I have been considering the Charlet Moser tubular pickets that I saw in Pro Mountain Sports. I don't think that they have as much holding power, but they should rack easier, and should hold well enough for steep neve.

[This message has been edited by Colin (edited 02-02-2001).]

[justclimb]

AJ,

I have been using Yates Pickets for a few years now and my MSRs just sit in my basement. The Yates are easier to rack and simplier to use. They do not need a runner because a cable is attached to the picket in the middle. This lets you use it as a deadman or a vertical picket. The head is also reinforced so it does not get too smashed when you hammer it in. They seem lighter, although I have not weighed them. I would not go back to MSR.

[scott]

xxxx

[This message has been edited by scott (edited 02-03-2001).]

[SpongeBob]

With the yates pickets is the cable in the middle permanently attached or can it be removed? Bob.

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[AJ]

Does anyone have experience with Yates' pickets? Apparently it is a design they picked up in New Zealand and is supposed to be more secure than my trusty old MSR Coyote pickets.

Second, has anyone found (many) times where a 2' MSR picket was not sufficient?

[justclimb]

The cable is permanently attached to the middle of the picket, but by threading it through the top hole (or any other for that matter)it will allow you to place the picket all the way and not leverage it.

[Colin]

I went to the Yates site, and they make an "expedition picket" that is the same as the other, but without the cable. Perhaps this is the best overall option (I'm thinking that the cable might be annoying for pounding the picket into really late-season hard snow).

http://www.yatesgear.com/climbing/ice/iceindex.htm#5

[seeker]

check out my post on :shnice protection"