Plastic Boot Decision

[Buckaroo]

Shopping for boots, got to replace my Asolo AFS 101's, their a bit outdated for tech ice, and very heavy.

 

Looking for a multi-purpose boot that will do very cold, like Denali and grade 5 waterfall, and light weight is high on the list. Whatever gets bought it's going to get a Intuition liner.

 

Narrowed search down to

 

Koflach Arctis Expe

 

Asolo AFS Evoluzione

 

Asolo AFS 8000

 

REI Comparison LINK

 

The Asolos seem lighter than the Koflach but really need to compare shell weights because of the Intuition liner plan.

 

Weighed the Koflach with the Intuition liner, comes in at 2 lbs 2 oz. per boot.

 

These two Asolo shells look identical except for the color?

 

The only advantage the Koflach might have is the pivot ankle.

 

The only other caveat is local availability.

 

I have looked at the Scarpa Omega and really like it. The lightest, and comes stock with heat moldable liner, although the liners are fragile. It's a very low profile though which may affect warmth and just like the Alpha Ice it's too narrow for me in the arch area. I talked with the Marmot boot expert, it would be problematic to open it up in that area due to the carbon fiber base comes up the side there.

 

[Mr_Phil]

The two Asolo shells are made of different materials, pu vs. pebax, so they will have different flex characteristics.

 

www.asolo.com

 

How about the Lowa Civetta?

[Buckaroo]

The Civetta is heavy, even the shell is heavier. With the Intuition liner it's 2 lbs. 7 oz.. 5 oz. over the Koflach per boot.

 

Bad knees, want a lighter boot.

[G-spotter]

Asolo boots are teh suck. They feel and climb like Kleenex boxes on the feet.

 

Also don't believe published weights. Actually weigh them.

 

Why not Scarpa Omegas with Intuitions?

[G-spotter]

Or Olympus Mons?

[kurthicks]

I don't think any plastic boot will perform well on WI5 and expedition slogs. I might suggest something like the Sportiva Nuptse or Spantik, but those are leather/synthetic double boots.

[crazy_t]

Expe's are warm, a bit heavy but I think if you want a boot to do both Denali and ice, the Denali cold factor will trump the ice climbing.

[Mark_Husbands]

I have started using a second hand Koflach Expe shell with an Intuition and I really like it. I sized the shell down a bit and have been very pleased. Wore them in Lee Vining weekend before last when it hit -10F at Mammoth the previous night and I was warm all day even with the standing around belaying.

[Buckaroo]

"Asolo boots are the suck."

 

Maybe it's a matter of perspective. Climbed Rainier in Lowa Denalis, 3#8oz. each. Before any clue about light weight. Been climbing WI for years in Asolo AFS 101, 3#4oz ea. Had some Asolo AFS Superlites 2#10oz ea. for one season but the rand came apart.

 

Did Ptarmigan traverse (6 summits) in Koflach Paras (2#9oz) that were one size too large. The 101's have almost no rocker either so I would say it's more like cinderblocks than kleenex boxes. So shaving over 1# per boot is going to be like night and day.

 

weighed boots in stores, all with Intuition liner, weight each

 

Scarpa Omega 1#14oz.

Koflach Arctis Expi 2#2oz.

Lowa Civetta 2#7oz.

 

Also measured sole length, the Lowa and Omega are about 12" in a 9 and the 101's are 12-1/2". Haven't measured the Expi yet but if going like Husbands suggests (and BTW Twight in Extreme Alpinism), one size down on the shells then they should be ok there.

 

Would get the Omega, but just like the Alpha Ice they are very narrow in the arch area and don't fit my wide feet.

 

If I ever want to get extreme Ice cragging maybe just put some rigid cramps on my Trango S's.

 

The Expi's are maybe the call since their stocked in town unlike the Asolo's which will have to be ordered, so trying to downsize the shell might be problematic.

 

So this raises another question. What's the choice on socks and vapor barrier? The House vid shows him using a liner and thick sock and having 2 pairs of each and rotating every day to keep dry. But that's with breathable liners.

 

But the Intuitions aren't breathable? So what about, a polypro liner, a vapor barrier, then the thick sock? This is Twights rec.

 

"Or Olympus Mons?"

 

ha ha, Yeah when I get back down to 25 again I'm going to start climbing the 8,000'ders.

[gt5816v]

I just ordered a set of the Asolo AFS Evos. REI doesn't stock them so I hope they are the right size... If they do not fit I'll likely get the Koflachs with Intuitions.

[bearman14]

I have the Expes, and they're a bit sloppy on ice, particularly grade 5 ice. My heel floats around a lot in them compared to my LS Nepal Extremes. Granted, I'm still using the stock liners. I've picked up a pair of Intuition liners, but I'm not sure that they'll climb any better -- rather they'll just be warmer and lighter. But even with the stock liners, these suckers are warm, warm, warm. No frostbite yet :-)

[DaveH]

If you are going to fit Intuitions into Koflachs, why shell out lots of $$ for the Arctis Expeds? The warmth comes from the liner, not the shell so get a cheaper model -I have Verticals but the next model down (the Degre) would also work. Get the same performance for less dollars which you can then spend on other toys,

[Mark_Husbands]

yeah, i bought mine second hand so i took what i found, but the verticals should have the same stiffness. with the custom liner (and I have a custome footbed) my foot feels very locked in; much better than any plastic i have used before. and my toes feel close to the front but never hit...there's just a bit more wiggle room created by a toe cover during the heating process.

[G-spotter]

http://www.psychovertical.com/?spantik

[Mark_Husbands]

yeah, those are better. but i paid 120 bucks for mine...

[ericb]

If you are going to fit Intuitions into Koflachs, why shell out lots of $$ for the Arctis Expeds? The warmth comes from the liner, not the shell so get a cheaper model -I have Verticals but the next model down (the Degre) would also work. Get the same performance for less dollars which you can then spend on other toys,

 

I think the shell of the Arctis/Vertical is stiffer than the Degre in addition to the liner being warmer.

[gt5816v]

Exactly what I was thinking. I haven't done any ice climbing yet so my main interest is a winter mountaineering boot that I can flounder on some ice with for now

If you are going to fit Intuitions into Koflachs, why shell out lots of $$ for the Arctis Expeds? The warmth comes from the liner, not the shell so get a cheaper model -I have Verticals but the next model down (the Degre) would also work. Get the same performance for less dollars which you can then spend on other toys,

[Buckaroo]

Weighed the Degree and the Expi shell, identical.

 

The flexibility of the shell material seems the same and other than the colors, these two shells seem identical except for the interior sole. The Expi has a heel recess that fits a raised heel on the liner. The liners are totally different but that's immaterial if going with Intuitions.

 

So yes the degree may work.

 

Now need to figure how much room you need in the shell. The 8.5 and the 9 have the same size shell. The 7.5 and the 8 also have the same size shell. Size 9 is my street shoe. With just a sock on the 8.5-9 shell has about 1-1/2" room at the heel with the toe just touching. The 7.5-8 shell has about 1". Need to talk to the boot fitter at Marmot.

[ericb]

According to their website, the Degre has a softer shell, but may not be noticeable.....

 

http://www.koflach.com/products.html

[Mark_Husbands]

i would go with the 1" shell fit.

[Delmarco]

Degres also have a cheaper built on the shell where the rubber rand would peel off on some of them after a few wears.

 

In terms of Asolo boots, My first plastics were Asolo AFS that I got for a 2000 winter backpacking trip in the ADK. They were warm when temps dipped into the -20s, but I found the shell to be stiff and the fit to be tighter than average. Also the were a pain in the ass to put on and lace up in the morning. I upgraded to the Koflach Degres in 2003 and after a few trips I had no complaints with warmth, comfort and wear-ability for long periods. I upgraded to the Koflach Verticals last month specifically for Ice Climbing and I wanted a warmer boots after the upgrade I realized that the Degre plastice shells are definately cheaper built than the Verticals/Exped shells. I would have gotten Expeds, but they felt klunky on my feet and for the price I would have paid for them I would have bought the ultra warm & light VASQUE ICE 9000 which is hailed as the future direction for Plastic Boots technology. Too bad they were sold out everywhere when I was shopping around.

 

I'm happy with the Verticals and recommend them over Degres and definately over any Asolo boots.

 

This is what Koflach offers w/ manufacturer warmth ratings...

And the super hard to find VASQUE ICE 9000 boots said to be warmer than all the other boots whiles being very comfortable & light.

[Jedi]

I' happy with my Spantiks so far. They are a toasty boot so it might not be perfect on summer climbs in the lower 48 but little chance of cold feet in colder temps.

The fit is a little narrow.

6 lbs for a size 43.5, 1 lb lighter than the Nupste.

They don't feel clunky, to me, like a double plastic.

I like on WI 4 and WI 5 last weekend and I was surprised. Great climbing boot!

The custom footbeds from Neptune Mountaineering increased the temp rating.

The Nupste is a better approach boot. It hikes better than the Spantik but the Spantik is better on steeper terrain.

 

As far are breathable liners. Very few are breathable. It is a vapor liner.

Boreal makes the G1 which is a great hiker but probably climbs more like the Nuptse. It has a breathable liner boot but it has a leather shell. The liner takes a little geting use to since it is softer than the foam/leather liners in most boots. It's a heavier boot than the Spantik. I forget how much. Proabably close to the Nuptse.

 

Nice thing about these three models is thatshimn bash was not an issue like in the double plastics I have been torutre with in the past. I will never go plastic again.

 

The Vasque 9000 looks like a great boot and would be my next choice if the fit was there.

Just my two cents

 

Jedi

[LastManUp]

Don't believe the published weights!

 

I did a side-by-side weighing analysis at Marmot Mountain Works in Bellevue. I weighed all size 9's of the all the plastic boots they carry. Contrary to their hype and marketing, the heaviest boots were the Vasque Ice 9000, if I recall correctly, at 5 lbs. 13 oz. The Koflach Arctis Expe were lighter, at about 5 lbs. 10 oz., and the Lowa Civetta Extreme were 5 lbs. 7 oz. The Koflach Degre was only slightly lighter at 5 lbs. 6 oz. I didn't bother weighing the Scarpa Invernos, but I believe they may be the heaviest in the group, at over 6 lbs.

 

If your feet can handle them, I'd consider the Lowa Civetta Extemes. They're really versatile in that they can handle the low temps, and they're really low volume (which may explain the lighter weight) which allows better climbing dexterity.

 

 

[hopper_62]

question, (sorry if this has been covered) I have a 17 year old pair of koflack vario extrem’s. any chance of fitting the intuition liners in these antiques?

[Buckaroo]

""Don't believe the published weights!""

 

Never. A gear shop isn't a climbing shop unless they have a scale.

 

With many of these boots the weight difference is in the liner. The Intuition custom fit liner is very light. You can shave about 1-1/2# off a pair of boots.

 

I weighed size 9 boots also, but replacing the stock liner with Intuitions on all the boots I weighed. So basically this is a shell weight comparison.

 

weight per boot (size 9) with Intuition liner.

 

Scarpa Omega 1#14oz.

Koflach Arctis Expi 2#2oz.

Koflach Degre 2#2oz.

Lowa Civetta 2#7oz.

 

So the Intuition liner shaves the Koflach's from 5#10oz. to 4#4oz. And in this scenario the Civetta is heavier by 10oz. for the pair.

 

In addition the Intuition liner is warmer and fits way better for less chafing on approach and better feel on technical stuff.

 

The Degre and Expi come out of the same mold. After reading here, went back and felt the shells to feel if the Expi was stiffer, it seems it is a slight amount. Would be nice to know exactly where the Degre shell is weaker. May just wait till they restock my size at REI so I can return them if they blow out. Since the Intuitions are $150 it would be nice to hold the cost down a little.