EWolfe Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 Paradise Forks, one of the most ethically "pure" climbing areas in the USA, is encountering major crag-top damage in the way of erosion, tree damage, and vegetation harm. link Discuss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Choada_Boy Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 Saw that a lot back East. Trees got mauled from constantly being used as rap anchors, etc. It's unethical in that case to not use fixed pro, IMCO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 Paradise....next they are going to build a stairway to get in an out. The prow needs no anchors. Its clean as a whisle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweatinoutliquor Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 I also saw that happening back east... I guess there are three options: 1. Do nothing, erosion is sweet! 2. Attempt to rehab the area, maybe install a few bolts 3. Ban or restrict climbing in that area. I personally think 2 is the best option... If it's already a popular enough area that significant damage is being done, then you can probably forget about the wilderness feeling when you are out there anyway. Although I feel that bolting these places may be a bit shortsighted (never know what type of sweet technology will come along in the future), its a more acceptable environmental trespass than doing nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bug Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 The R&D route in Icicle used to have a small tree as a top anchor. I used to solo up there and walk off. So I was up there when a group was rappelling off. There were about 5 of them and the last one was on his way down as I walked by the tree. It was hanging on by two one ince diameter roots into a crack filled with sand on a ledge. I sat down and pulled on the runner as hard as I could untill the guy got off and then I pulled the webbing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chelle Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 The walk off R&D is so easy I can't imagine why anyone would rap this route. Too bad a tree had to get damaged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EWolfe Posted January 17, 2007 Author Share Posted January 17, 2007 Although I am certainly not suggesting that Paradise Forks install fixed anchors at this point (rehab being the current effort), I posted this more as a question: At what point is the environmental impact greater than the visual impact of fixed anchors? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 At what point is the environmental impact greater than the visual impact of fixed anchors? Good question! Not sure there is a sane answer. If anchors did go in….it would for sure change the character of Paradise. Of course if erosion keeps up the place gets closed……that would change the character as well. Paradise is a unique place to climb…..essentially a big pit sitting in a beautiful forest. Its truly only trad. Having to “climb out” just to go to your car is unique. It is getting more and more popular, and with the crowds come usage/erosion. Maybe a couple of fixed anchors in strategic places would not be a bad thing. bone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wfinley Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 The walk off R&D is so easy I can't imagine why anyone would rap this route. Too bad a tree had to get damaged. Actually if everyone walked down a popular route it would lead to more erosion then the impact of rapping off one tree. I likewise saw this happen in the east -- at Seneca Rocks and the New River Gorge. At Seneca all the trees had slings wrapped around them for years until they began dying off; now there are rap anchors bolted just next to the tree. Below are pix form the link; seems that if bolts were placed at the top of the pitch fewer people would walk around on the cliffs edge thus less erosion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 Similar problems arose where I learned to climb in Michigan. The last time I visitted, it had become standard practice for climbers to set top ropes with padding from car floor mats or similar material, and climbers would set a top-rope at the beginning of the day and leave their rope there all day long, so other parties could use it without having to stomp the cliff edge any more than necessary. Climbers were asked not to top out, to minimize traffic along the cliff edge even further. All of this generated a very social climbing scene. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 Either way....you got to love the forks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stagg54 Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 Similar problems arose where I learned to climb in Michigan. The last time I visitted, it had become standard practice for climbers to set top ropes with padding from car floor mats or similar material, and climbers would set a top-rope at the beginning of the day and leave their rope there all day long, so other parties could use it without having to stomp the cliff edge any more than necessary. Climbers were asked not to top out, to minimize traffic along the cliff edge even further. All of this generated a very social climbing scene. A pad of some kind might help, but wouldn't it be kind of counter-productive?? The pad is just blocking the sunlight to that area so that no vegetation can grow. Vegetation helps stop erosion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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