Clavote Posted January 2, 2007 Posted January 2, 2007 Just wanted to throw two cents on this one and since the other threads on it are locked, looks like it's going to have to be in spray. Should wait until the SAR report, but want to go into more detail anyway. Accidents are usually a result of a combination of factors. This one looked to be weather, physical condition of climber/climbers (age?) and lack of (for whatever reason) adequate gear/supplies. Also some possible complacency or underestimating Hood in winter. They sort of took their time on the approach which may have pushed them to the point where there was no time margin with the incoming weather. Maybe because of Kelly's age. It seems like he was overextended after the summit. He may have also been affected by altitude. This happens sometimes with people who climb in somewhere like Colorado. They are used to going to 14K' from a 7K' valley, which is only a 7K' gain. Whereas with Hood you are starting from near sea level and going to 11K'. It's not the peak altitude gained but the difference from base to summit. Not enough acclimatization. And altitude affects you at random, sometimes it will hit you and sometimes it won't, so you may have gotten away with it before but not this time. Add winter on top of that, colder takes more energy and makes it harder to breathe. Why did they not have adequate gear? No matter how fast they were they should have had minimum, at least one stove, one bivy sack and one pad between the 3 of them, and one insulated jacket per climber. If they didn't start out with this that was inadequate planning. Maybe they had this stuff and it got lost or dropped in the storm or from cognitive loss due to altitude or hypothermia. But this is questionable since two of them were still on their feet and tried to descend, you think they would have held onto a stove if they had one and just stayed in a snowcave and waited it out. Kelly was found without an insulating jacket. Again if one wasn't taken it's an oversight, most likely he had one and it was lost due to altitude sickness or hypothermia. Kelly made it up but was too tired or incapacitated to climb back down the hard way. They didn't have enough info to find the easy descent, either compass bearings or GPS waypoints and the weather made it even harder, due to low visibility. If they had had a stove they should have just waited out the storm. Instead the two who were mobile decided to go for help to save their buddy, knowing he was on the edge without water. The weather was too bad for a descent back down the hard way but they tried anyway. A pair of ice tools aren't "left behind", the two climbers most likely fell. The age difference and subsequent physical condition can sometimes be a problem. The older person not wanting to hold the group back goes past his comfort zone. The cell phone is an issue too although it probably wouldn't have helped in this case.. Digital is ok but analog capable is mandatory because of wider coverage, and a ziplock freezer bag to keep it dry. I can see going solo without a phone but with 3 people it's mandatory. And even solo it's nice to be able to call just to say your hunkered in a snow cave and going past your return time. On most of the volcanoes though they only work up high due to coverage. If you don't take it for yourself take it for those who care about you or who may have to rescue you. Even the best climbers can have an accident. Snowcave technique is important also. The huge opening in "Freedom of the Hills" is wrong, too much heat escapes. A survival cave has two small holes per person, especially if there's no sleeping bag. This is tricky with blowing snow, someone has to stay awake to make sure the vents stay clear. Complacency. Even the best climbers can drop their guard at times. Look at John Middendorf when he got stuck on Half Dome. Assuming because you made it ok so many times before you'll be ok with less this one time. The volcanoes in winter. Yes you've been on Denali but Hood in winter has very high snow rates and the wind combined with temps are enough to force you to dig in just the same. If you're not prepared to sit it out you're in trouble. It's like ducks in a row or links in a chain, know the easy descent for certain, carry the minimum gear and don't lose it, important in summer but multiplied in winter. Climbing is a game to hone the knife edge of the gene pool, you play to do just that. The stakes have to be high or it doesn't work. But there's no reason you can't stack the deck in your favor by learning from other's experiences. Good hypothesis. I agree with a lot of it. I especially agree with the gene pool culling in some cases. It just happens sometimes to the best of us. Quote
cindy66 Posted January 2, 2007 Posted January 2, 2007 Does that qualify me as serious hiker No. This site is call "cascadeCLIMBERS.com, not cascadeHIKERS.com. Get out and stay out. Kevbone, why don't you go check your own dam site buddy if you know so much??? There spot dedicated to this specificaly, STFU idiot. hey seahawk, what's the hardest hiking move that you have ever pulled off. I know the answer......is it walking backwards......! Quote
Buckaroo Posted January 2, 2007 Posted January 2, 2007 "I especially agree with the gene pool culling in some cases. It just happens sometimes to the best of us." after a re-read, realized it wasn't fully like intended. Didn't mean as in this case where people died, but in the living pushing themselves and improving then passing their genes on. Still it works both ways. The couch sure isn't going to do anything but decline. Quote
Seahawks Posted January 2, 2007 Posted January 2, 2007 Thread bound to get better now that Kevbone is gone. Quote
Clavote Posted January 2, 2007 Posted January 2, 2007 Does that qualify me as serious hiker No. This site is call "cascadeCLIMBERS.com, not cascadeHIKERS.com. Get out and stay out. Kevbone, why don't you go check your own dam site buddy if you know so much??? There spot dedicated to this specificaly, STFU idiot. hey seahawk, what's the hardest hiking move that you have ever pulled off. I know the answer......is it walking backwards......! He's gonna need some pro Quote
Seahawks Posted January 2, 2007 Posted January 2, 2007 you miss kevbone!! Now that is funny stuff. Quote
kevbone Posted January 2, 2007 Posted January 2, 2007 This thread must die,die,die,die,die,die,die,die,die, die,die,die,die,die, die,die,die,die,die,die,die,die,die,die, die,die,die,die,die,die,die,die, Quote
Seahawks Posted January 2, 2007 Posted January 2, 2007 This thread must die,die,die,die,die,die,die,die,die, die,die,die,die,die, die,die,die,die,die,die,die,die,die,die, die,die,die,die,die,die,die,die, That actually was kind of funny for some reason too. Quote
joblo7 Posted January 3, 2007 Posted January 3, 2007 kevvie and seecocks arguing reminds me of peruvian cockfights. violent+useless ps i think it was an accident.! Quote
Clavote Posted January 3, 2007 Posted January 3, 2007 kevvie and seecocks arguing reminds me of peruvian cockfights. violent+useless ps i think it was an accident.! Semen should join us in another room. It could be fun. Especially since Molly is not back. Am I wrong people? Quote
kevbone Posted January 3, 2007 Posted January 3, 2007 kevvie and seecocks arguing violent+useless Yes, good point! I got sucked into his/her brainless comments. Quote
kevbone Posted January 3, 2007 Posted January 3, 2007 did they ever find those guy's on hood? What guys? Quote
joblo7 Posted January 3, 2007 Posted January 3, 2007 no , we're still speculating on their orientation. Quote
kevbone Posted January 3, 2007 Posted January 3, 2007 Hey, if we keep this up. Maybe we could push this thread up to 200 pages. Quote
pink Posted January 3, 2007 Posted January 3, 2007 no , we're still speculating on their orientation. i heard in another thread that they were republican same sex gay clones. this is getting wierd. Quote
Seahawks Posted January 3, 2007 Posted January 3, 2007 no , we're still speculating on their orientation. i heard in another thread that they were republican same sex gay clones. this is getting wierd. As opposed to Democrat carpet scarfers? Quote
Seahawks Posted January 3, 2007 Posted January 3, 2007 This thread must die,die,die,die,die,die,die,die,die, die,die,die,die,die, die,die,die,die,die,die,die,die,die,die, die,die,die,die,die,die,die,die, This thread must not die Quote
olyclimber Posted January 4, 2007 Posted January 4, 2007 this is exactly what i was talking about in the other thread. Quote
Seahawks Posted January 4, 2007 Posted January 4, 2007 Looks at those views just climbing Morbid curiosity! Quote
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