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fern

MT Hood Continued

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Just an idea, which may get shot down as speculation, cause it is, but I haven't heard anyone suggest it. Everyone is assuming there were two accidents...one that dislocated Kelly's shoulder, and another that the other two experienced. Since we know that Kelly had a false sense of reality when he made the phone call as evidence of sounding 'delirious' and stating that one of the other climbers was 'on an airplane,' that tells me he didn't have a clue what was going on. That's as absurd as saying the climber was in a movie theatre watching Santa Clause 3 and munching popcorn. Or, maybe a head injury causing amnesia or something else making him hallucinate and forget the past. Which means he could have been the only one of the three to come out of a bad accident and make it to the top...ONE accident.

 

There was some debate here as to whether the tracks shown in the photos are one person or two...two axes or one, etc. I don't know how two people are trained to go up together, but if it's two that went, it looks like they used a technique of the lower man deliberately putting his feet where the others guys feet were NOT, staggering the foot placement. Else, eventually, the lower guy would step in the exact same spot. Or if it's one person, his steps were short and axe work as well. It's hard to tell without some scale to the photo. Those tracks could each be two feet apart or more for all I know. The report was that the tracks lead from a snow cave, straight upward, then faded out near the top. If such tracks would only be left in a climb, and not a decent, and there are only two people at most, then the sherrif's story is contradictory. Why do I need to 'buy' his story? The same reason anyone needs to buy the story of law enforcement or a lawyer in a courtroom. We want to know what happened. I can accept not ever knowing for sure. What I can't accept are contradictions from the same authoritative sources, and claims that a Y shaped rope used to support a shack that has long been torn down belonged to these climbers. This is crazy. The public may not deserve answers, but if I were a family member, I'd be asking more than a few questions, not to challenge anyone's ability or integrity, but to learn the truth. This 'case' can't end like this. No way. Yes, it's a case. A law enforcement officer is running the show and collecting evidence. That's his job, as it should be, but he shouldn't get away with announcing facts that are hogwash and/or later contradict his own facts. Where are the pictures of the rope, foam pad, axes, strewn on the side of the mountain?

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I am very grateful to be able to come here and lurk and learn. There was so much I didn't understand (and still don't) about mountain climbing, the logistics of it all, the equipment needed, the passion behind it. I have learned so much here. I head read here and searched google for things I was unfamiliar with (such as bivy gear - had never heard of that!). This forum could be a closed forum with access only to members who are climbers, but I feel fortunate that I have gotten to take a glimpse into your world. And that now I have an understanding of why you climb and why the three Mt Hood climbers were up there. What a feeling that must be.

 

And I must say, I feel inspired too. What good is sitting in my home office all day every day, eating dinner, watching TV and going to bed, and doing it all again tomorrow? For the rest of my life? Until I die? Better to find something you love, and DO it. Just like those three climbers and so many of you here are doing.

 

you my dear have made my whole day. thank you.

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This clarifies a lot. Thanks for the information.
Nice photos Mike!

 

Rather not add anything to this than necessary but there seems to be some confusion. For the record, the "Y" cable photo on all those news sites is just some steel cable that tied down the old summit shack (long-since destroyed).

 

Here's the media photo (rotated for some reason):

 

(see iain's photos earlier in thread)

 

Here's the actual climber's anchor (webbing and pickets), with their steps leading to it:

 

(see iain's photos earlier in thread)

 

Two different things. Do not use this photo w/o talking to me.

I had to page back through every page to find these photos, finally finding them on page 3. The second one just shows the tracks. The footprints are sideways, sloping slightly down and to the right. Other photos I've seen show them going straight up, assuming the camera was right side up. I don't know which way is up on this one, and I don't see an anchor, webbing, gear, or anything else except maybe some rocks sticking through the snow, and the photographers hand in the way on the right side of the pic. What's the deal?

 

As for the Y shaped photo, the first one, all I can say is, you've absolutely positively have to be kidding me, right? The sheriff himself referred to that photo as being something the climbers made, and that he himself was wondering why the media had turned it sideways when the Y in actuality was pointing straight downward. This is crazy.

 

Look just above where the tracks terminate on the right side of the photo. It is difficult to see because of the distance from which the photo was taken, but there is clearly a very typical alpine anchor set-up. It is about the size of your mouse arrow.

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The more facts I find out about what happened on the NF of Hood, I realize they had to make some very, very tough choices in a very, very harsh location near the summit.

 

My blood almost freezes just thinking about what they went through.

 

Can we handle the TRUTH?

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What good is sitting in my home office all day every day, eating dinner, watching TV and going to bed, and doing it all again tomorrow? For the rest of my life? Until I die? Better to find something you love, and DO it. Just like those three climbers and so many of you here are doing.

 

:rawk:

Perhaps one of the best first posts ever.

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Or perhaps it means he was injured, but the injury, at least at that point, wasn't unduly severe.

 

A family member, I believe it was Frank, was quoted in the news as saying that in a high school wrestling match, Kelly dislocated his shoulder, popped it back in and kept on going to finish and/or win the match.

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I've just spent the past three hours reading every post on this extended thread. I'm not a climber so this will be my first and last post on this site. Thanks for the privledge.

 

What I have seen, heard and read over the past week in following these three climbers is somthing we should all strive for - - putting our dreams and desires into action - - climb a mountain for example.

 

These climbers did just that. Got up, got out, and are trying something difficult but something they love doing.

 

My lesson from listening to all you folks and watching this story unfold is that we should all take their example of daily courage and follow this path to happiness.

 

That's what I learned from understainding their story.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Babachu

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:hcluv:And if you do what you love to do safely like Phil, you can do it again and again and again and....

 

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What good is sitting in my home office all day every day, eating dinner, watching TV and going to bed, and doing it all again tomorrow? For the rest of my life? Until I die? Better to find something you love, and DO it. Just like those three climbers and so many of you here are doing.

 

:rawk:

Perhaps one of the best first posts ever.

 

I would have to concur. Couloir had a sweet one too.

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I've just spent the past three hours reading every post on this extended thread. I'm not a climber so this will be my first and last post on this site. Thanks for the privledge.

 

What I have seen, heard and read over the past week in following these three climbers is somthing we should all strive for - - putting our dreams and desires into action - - climb a mountain for example.

 

These climbers did just that. Got up, got out, and are trying something difficult but something they love doing.

 

My lesson from listening to all you folks and watching this story unfold is that we should all take their example of daily courage and follow this path to happiness.

 

That's what I learned from understainding their story.

 

I am very grateful to be able to come here and lurk and learn. There was so much I didn't understand (and still don't) about mountain climbing, the logistics of it all, the equipment needed, the passion behind it. I have learned so much here. I head read here and searched google for things I was unfamiliar with (such as bivy gear - had never heard of that!). This forum could be a closed forum with access only to members who are climbers, but I feel fortunate that I have gotten to take a glimpse into your world. And that now I have an understanding of why you climb and why the three Mt Hood climbers were up there. What a feeling that must be.

 

And I must say, I feel inspired too. What good is sitting in my home office all day every day, eating dinner, watching TV and going to bed, and doing it all again tomorrow? For the rest of my life? Until I die? Better to find something you love, and DO it. Just like those three climbers and so many of you here are doing.

 

:tup:

I think that might sum up the entire point to this tragedy (an any other for that matter). Details dont change a thing. The way we live our lives out of tragedy is what changes it - whether for the good or bad.

 

Luzi3 and babachu-

Whatever it is that inspires you, start it today. Whether that be climbing, knitting, taking a roadtrip, gardening, etc.

 

Im really glad to hear someone has gotten something good out of this!

 

Enjoy your life! :)

Edited by carolyn

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...and the photographers hand in the way on the right side of the pic.

 

That isn't a hand, it's part of an airplane.

 

Now will you please shut up and stop posting on this website?

I was simply trying to describe what I saw in the picture to get some help figuring this thing out. Contrary to what many here think, I don't think there's anything wrong with that. People are often careless and let a hand slip into the picture. I had no way of knowing it was an airplane in the way, and I'm appreciative of the person who pointed the anchor out to me. I see it now. Some things to keep in mind...

1. Iain seemed to have credibility and wouldn't make up a story about the infamous 'Y' being something not related to the climbers, something that had been there for years, once serving a different purpose. First, he had a picture others didn't, which told me he took it himself or possibly had sources close to the investigation. Second, he had lots of posts to his credit, which reinforces that he's not a transient here. Thirdly, other apparent regulars to this site know him.

2. If the sherrif is right after all, then I don't understand why a credible person, Iain, would say what he said. (Unless the Y shaped rope in his first pic is not the same one in his second pic.) If they are the same anchor, then the first one was taken with a powerful zoom lens, cause it looks like it covers a much larger area than in the 2nd pic. If they are not the same one, then why was the first one taken to begin with and distributed to the media? Hmmmm?

3. Why don't you contribute something intelligent to the thread instead of telling people to shut up and go away?

4. And by the way, sending people PM's and calling them idiots isn't the way to stop them.

 

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I'm mainly a backpacker/hiker in the eastern US. My favorite trips are the hardest of the hard. I'm pretty hard core and go out in crazy conditions all the time and there have been several times that I have found myself in situations where the margin of error was nearly closed and things could have easily gone from sketchy to disasterous.

 

I've become quite comfortable and confident with my abilities and experience and therefore complacent to a degree. When you see three guys who were very experienced and talented at climbing and mountaineering, it is tragic to say the least. This is somewhat a wakeup call for me and maybe everyone. You can never be too prepared, too safe or too lucky when the things you love to do come with risk factors. This is not to say we shouldn't do what we love, for to stop doing what we love in the face of risk only defeats the purpose.

 

In light of the recent events, I will surely take the memory of these three men along with me on all of my future adventures.

 

Hood proved to be their ultimate summit and may they enjoy the view from the top forever!

 

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After all is said and done, I think the lesson to be taken from this horrible tragedy is so simple, maybe that's why no one wants to dare suggest it so as to risk upsetting someone.

 

1. Leave yourself an ample cushion of time for any unexpected mishaps or weather.

2. If your goals don't allow for extra time, don't go.

 

This isn't second guessing or belittling the climbers. I would never intentionally do that, and if you read through my posts, you'll see I haven't done that. I support their decision to do what they did, and I'd never tell anyone when they can or can't climb a mountain.

 

 

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Yes the two pictures are of different anchors.

 

Yes the sheriff's story is goofy. That's because he isn't a climber and is getting second and third hand reports from lots of different people and is getting confused.

 

Yes Iain is a respected and knowledgable climber very familiar with Mt. Hood.

 

Your postings about your attempts to understand obvious facts and climbing concepts are a waste of everyone's time and are not productive in any way for anyone except yourself and no one cares if you ever understand this accident anyway.

 

So stop it.

 

Wait for the official report. You will get your explanation.

 

p.s. I'm glad that you have now summarized what you think the lessons to be gleaned from this event are; now you can stop posting.

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To answer the cave question. The cave was found by trying to connect the tracks leading to Wyeast to the tracks on the Cooper Crest. The cave where James was found was not visible on the slope and was only found by probing the snow while traversing beneath the East Face. The entrance was completely covered by snow with no external markings, no foorprints around the cave, no wands etc. These could have been blown away by 100+ winds. Needless to say the cave could not be seen from the air. The cave was found near a small rock outcrop that would have helped escavating the cave. It was big enough for 3 people, had not collaspsed. Since I know how some folks react to information, I am hesitant to describe the site or equipment, suffice to say that there was not the equipment resources needed to stay at that elevation and temperature for any lenght of time.

 

From a rescue point of view, RESCUE personnel would have needed complete visibility to find the cave where James was. Had we somehow reached the summit earlier in the week, there was no chance that the caves would have been found given the weather and the search area.

 

 

 

 

Along with Iains input I find this post very interesting and relevent.

TTT

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I am doing some mountaineering this coming summer in Washington (on Rainier) and in Colorado and unfortunately learned of this site through the unfolding tragedy, however, I plan to check back in here for information.

 

I am not new to climbing, just new to the Cascades.

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For someone who doesn't care about my posts or answering them, you sure do go to a lot of trouble...while speaking on behalf of others in the process.

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I don't listen much to those in padded cells either. Sorry.

 

 

don't be sorry, just go away.

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thanks zimzam.. I am a regular on thebackpacker.com and viewsfromthetop.com and I lurk on summitpost. I did something wrong because my name should say EarthNsky.

 

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What is so complicated?

 

Three guys went to climb the big snowy hill. One got hurt badly enough that the two others took a LOT of time to dig a cave and stash the injured one. They got soaked doing it.

 

The weather caught up with them. The guy in the cave died.

 

Then the two others probably fell at some point and died. Or they died in a snow cave/shrund/slot somewhere.

 

Who cares about the specifics. Does it really f'ing matter?

 

Jesus Christ everyone needs to STFU and have a moment of silence for these poor guys.

 

Their families are reading this crap. Stop your inane bickering!

 

Thank you

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thanks zimzam.. I am a regular on thebackpacker.com and viewsfromthetop.com and I lurk on summitpost. I did something wrong because my name should say EarthNsky.

Your post just reminded me of one earlier this week. No insult was intended. Welcome and good luck. Now :fahq:

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