3 Lost on Mount Hood

[psistrom]

I was watching yesterday in Brooklyn, but am originally from Oregon and have climbed Cooper Spur, the Northeast Face, and the Eliot Glacier Headwall routes. I still can't tell exactly where the first cave was (the one that the single rescuer descended to). Anyone know more precise details than the relentlessly inaccurate mainstream media?

Edited December 18, 2006 by psistrom

[gslater]

I was watching yesterday in Brooklyn, but am originally from Oregon and have climbed Cooper Spur, the Northeast Face, and the Eliot Glacier Headwall routes. I still can't tell exactly where the first cave was (the one that the single rescuer descended to). Any know more precise details than the relentlessly inaccurate mainstream media?

 

Looks like the first cave was in the upper stretches of the Cooper Spur route, a few hundred feet below the short summit ridge that extends to the SE from the actual summit.

 

And given the activity seen in the live video yesterday, I kind of assumed cave #2 is over the top, slightly down the normal southside route from the summit. But this is more speculative.

[Ruedi]

http://www.summitpost.org/route/155414/cooper-spur.html

 

Summitpost.org has a wealth of information, history, and photos.

 

To answer psistrom earlier; I think it's just above the Chimneys area of the NF above Cooper Spur.

 

Check out http://www.summitpost.org/mountain/rock/150189/mount-hood.html#chapter_2

 

as well.

[jfmctlaw]

Joshua Johnston (SAR) is live on Fox now. He discovered one of the caves. He handled the questions well and would not talk about specifics of the cave. Good job.

[randomguy]

Just want to say that all the updates from the TV coverage are much appreciated (I'm in England right now), and I would be grateful if people would keep it up as the search starts today.

[jfmctlaw]

Just want to say that all the updates from the TV coverage are much appreciated (I'm in England right now), and I would be grateful if people would keep it up as the search starts today.

 

You got it. Press conference is scheduled for about 15-20 mins from now.

[manky]

Speaking quietly from the background, it appears that most of the speculative posts are almost desperate for facts and certainty regarding the fate of 3 hard climbers. There is no certainty in life or climbing.

 

One of the reasons that James, Hall, Cooke and the rest of us climb is an attraction to the unknown, the lack of certainty. Not everyone needs to buy someone else's guide book. Some of us are born with our own and it is completely blank. We just fill it in as we go.

 

Having been on an epic or two myself, I sense the loss. But 3 "hardmen" don't start a climb of this magnitude without a firm grasp of the objective hazard involved. James had a problem and hunkered down while Hall and Cooke headed for help up and over or across the southeast aretes to descend to Timberline. After a few days James realized he could wait for help that may never come or go for it. He made his best move and stopped when he could go no further. I would have done the same.

 

Hall and Cooke also knew their chances and their story has yet to be read.

 

Certainty means little to those who understand "the higher you get, the higher you get." So James, Hall, and Cooke will climb on. That's who they are.

[Thinker]

I encourage those with genuine questions, comments, and information to keep posting, and not to get too discouraged by the insensitive bickering of those few "bad eggs". I genuinely hope this thread can continue to be a good source of information from the SAR teams that have chosen to participate.

 

I know that more than a few of my climbing partners around the country are following this thread closely (or at least they were as of a day ago before the sprayers over ran the thread), and the benefits of insights and information here are benefiting a large audience.

 

As with any public forum, it doesn't take but a few to ruin a good thing.

 

There are many of us here pulling for those lost and those searching...MANY more than are posting.

[Lambone]

"Based on what searchers found Sunday, Wampler said, two climbers may have descended the east side of the mountain, which is not a logical route."

 

What do some of you climbers from the Mt. Hood area think of this possiblilty? From previous posts I had thought this wasn't a feasible option for descent?

 

I think anything is possible at this point. They may have been storm bound on the summit and just picked a direction to head down other then the face they just climbed up. No one knows if they had a compass or map to navigate. They could have gone any direction in the whiteout. The scope of the search is now nearly the entire mountain.

[Thinker]

And Lambone, you of all people should be respectful of everyone here. If it weren't for the willingness of people to risk their lives to save stranded climbers I doubt you'd be around today to "have a bad day". (wagging my finger at you, not calling you out)

 

I, too, have been the recipient of that self-sacrificing spirit. In my case, my partner and I were "found" at the trailhead by the SAR team getting ready to go in looking for us. As it was, the Sheriff's deputy interviewed us, made sure we weren't injured or dehydrated, and thanked us for doing the right thing by hunkering down and tying in when it got dark in unfamiliar territory....and waiting for daylight. That incident convinced me to get a cell phone so I could at least attempt to let my emergency contact know we were delayed but safe so all the good SAR folks wouldn't have to take an afternoon off work again unnecessarily.

 

Kudos to all who are keeping it positive here, the Moderators with the thankless job to weed the garden, and all the people here with genuine concern for the climbers, the search, the searchers, and to those who want to learn something from all of this.

[Cantclimb]

Excuse my ignorance.....I too am a nonclimber but I admire any person who will climb a mountain like that!

 

My question.......Can you guys climb and go down Elliot's Glacier of a winter time?

 

Thanks!

 

[Phil Jones]

The scope of the search is now nearly the entire mountain.

 

That's a large part of the tragedy.

 

 

[joblo7]

well said. for info on mountaineering nubs can get books or if one doesn't understand light and fast 'for real' ,read twight's book.

[Lambone]

And Lambone, you of all people should be respectful of everyone here.

 

I'm trying to be respectfull dude. I made one dumb comment about people going away, and apologized for it. I've got nothing but respect and admiration for all those involved with the search.

 

I'm hoping for the best today along with everyone else, good luck guys!

[telafree]

Im not sure if you are all aware, but kgw.com is streaming the live news conference that is starting now.

 

 

[jfmctlaw]

Fox is doing their pre conference show right now. Conf to begin any minute. Sherrif is arriving now. Anyone post live feed links?

[mattp]

Yesterday, I received several requests that I intervene as a moderator in this thread and last night I deleted a few posts and asked some of the participants to post elsewhere on this board when they feel the need to argue about matters tangential to the topic of this thread: things related to the ongoing search and rescue operation, the details of the climb, and the climbers directly involved.

 

This has been a compelling story and many of us are watching closely. The discussion may at some points have aided family members or searchers, and it may also have proven a distraction or annoyance as well. For many who are involved or simply just interested in the saga - especially those without cable TV or high speed Internet access - this has provided information unavailable elsewhere.

 

Many may want to debate whether mountain climbing is a responsible activity or whether it should be regulated or just what gear is appropriate on a winter climb or whether a certain poster is genuine or not -- all kinds of things. Please do so in other threads elsewhere on this board or through private messages or e-mail.

 

Please understand that the moderators on this bulletin board are all volunteers, and we cannot monitor every post. We have done what we can to try to keep this discussion at least somewhat on track and generally supportive of a somewhat rational and at least generally polite discussion of the search and rescue operation, the details of the climb, and information about the climbers directly involved.

[jfmctlaw]

Conference:

 

Sheriff Wampler speaking

reviewing yesterdays ops.

Chinook dropped SAR personnel yesterday, 2 caves found, 1 with a body in it.

 

Today helo will take crew up again to mtn as soon as helo's arrive at airport.

 

Will search for 2 missing climbers. Search is now narrowed to cave area and area directly below caves. That area is known as the 'Gullies'. Very steep, easy to fall, lots of avy danger. We cannot put ground crews in there this time of year.

[Lambone]

I hope the weather sticks around for another couple days...

[jfmctlaw]

Conference:

 

Will do air search of Gullies/Cooper Spur/Elliot Glacier.

 

Ground crews to search lower areas.

 

Questions now by reporters.

 

It will take less and less people to search now as the area of search narrows.

 

Have not decided how to move body yet. Have to evaluate danger of such, eg. helo vs sled

[Dallashopefull]

Everything I know about climbing I learned this week, mostly on this board. We know close friends of the James family so our attention and feelings of helplessness may have been higher than most.

 

Today we're trying to figure out how to help our friends. But, my heart goes out to the other families. Sitting there, feeling the reality of one climber's end and knowing their boys are still up there somewhere.

 

So I am wishing, hoping, praying, and "sending good vibes" that they too will know their loved ones situation today. Please dont let this go another day....for them. All of our positive energy to the SAR teams to get through the loss of one climber and go find the rest.

 

Be safe.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[joblo7]

one thing i just remembered from yesterday and i had the same experience is that after spending 3-4 days in cave 1 kelly may have come out to make himself visible when he heard choppas.i speculate on this only to highlight another danger. i did that once and they did not see me, and i took risks because i wanted out!i spent a 5th nite foodless on snow.risks are everywhere , you have to see them.

[jfmctlaw]

Conf

 

 

Wampler

3 climbers climbed right gully and summitted. Then went south looking for entrance to Pearly Gates to descend. They broke off to the east side and dropped down 300 ft below summit and dug cave for all 3 on Friday night.

 

Sat am, 2 climbers left and went back north to summit ridge. But weather was now bad, 2 climbers try to rtn to cave. There was an anchor near 2nd cave (not a good cave) they put in 2 anchors to be safe while they worked (2 slings on anchor). At that point ice axes found there, ice axes identical (same climber's tools) 1 wool glove, piece of rope as well. Last known place of the 2 climbers.

 

 

[Lyn]

It was 16 days back in '76. The last 13 were in one snowcave.

 

Yep, the last snow cave was the 6th or 7th they dug. I only quoted a part of the article (but gave the link).

 

A great story - 3 teenagers, leave their map in the car, get lost, dig 6 or 7 snow caves, two fall into crevasses & rescue themselves, on Hood 16 days and were never afraid.

 

They only dug 3 caves, the last of which had a tunnel that was 45 feet long by the time the storm was over. And they were VERY afraid.

 

Mr. Knapp was interviewed on CNN. He said they built 6 or 7 snowcaves (he wasn't sure which).

 

He said they were never afraid but always cold Here: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1753891/posts

 

[joblo7]

one thing i just remembered from yesterday and i had the same experience is that after spending 3-4 days in cave 1 kelly may have come out to make himself visible when he heard choppas.i speculate on this only to highlight another danger. i did that once and they did not see me, and i took risks because i wanted out!i spent a 5th nite foodless on snow.risks are everywhere , you have to see them.