Farrgo Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 All of these recent threads about equipment failures, whether it be aliens or dynemee, has gotten me thinking about the actual nuts and bolts of why stuff is, or isn't, working. Does anyone know of a good book on climbing physics for someone who has little or no physics knowledge. Keep in mind that I have read the Climbing Anchors book 1000 times and understand simply concepts like how and why an anchor is equalized. Still, some of the posts used terms I'd never hear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 To my knowledge, such a book has yet to be written. In the world of sailing there was a wonderful book called The Science of Yachts, Wind, and Water that did a fine job of discussing the physics of sailing. We need such a book for climbing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
counterfeitfake Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 If you have little or no physics knowledge, how about a book about physics? Climbing physics is physics. I don't think it makes sense to try and learn more specialized info without knowing the basics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary_Yngve Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 I can explain the first-order physics to you, but things are way more complicated than that. I don't think we possess simulators capable of tractably reproducing what happens when a prusik is loaded until it slips. What are you specifically looking for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClimbingPanther Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 Gary's right, the real world is often difficult to describe with equations, but everyone should know the basics which are important. There are a lot of concepts which can be put to good use if you never read a single climbing book. Like how large angles in an anchor's cordelette astronomically increases the force on the piece. Like when you fall, the force of your fall is (in theory) doubled on a piece above the belay because it's like a pulley. Average physics ignoramus Joe may think, "Hey, my rope won't let a force happen more than X kN, so I can fall all I want on this little nut!" However, it's impossible to make exact predictions because there are so many variables (friction in various places, rope stretch and age, static-ness of belay, weight of climbers, etc.). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrgo Posted November 7, 2006 Author Share Posted November 7, 2006 I've taken a couple college level physics classes. So I would say, I know basic physics. However, remembering a little bit of vector analysis is a far cry from really understanding the nuts and bolts of the system. A basic physics book would be good. I am not looking for anything in particular. I just thought that if a book existed, which described the physics of all things climbing, then I would definately want to purchase it and learn more. However, it seems that there is no authoratative manual on climbing physics out there. I would imagine that you can find lots of information scattered throughout the web, probably on manufacutrer websites and what not. Anybody know where? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericb Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 There might not be a single authoritative source, but here's the bibliography page of a MIT class on the physics of rock climbing with links to a number of different papers, articles etc. Perhaps you could email the prof and see as well. A lot of the papers seem to assume a base knowledge of physics however. http://web.mit.edu/sp255/www/bib.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClimbingPanther Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 (edited) I'd hate to fall on THIS thing!!! shoot, doesn't look so messed up when the image is small try: http://web.mit.edu/custer/www/rocking/cams/cams.body.html#introduction Seriously though, cool find with that website! Edited November 7, 2006 by ClimbingPanther Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrgo Posted November 7, 2006 Author Share Posted November 7, 2006 A lot of those papers do assume quite a bit of physics knowledge, but its a good start. That coupled with an entry-level physics textbook would probably get the ball rolling. I think we can all agree that a physics manual tailored specifically toward climbers with little physics would be nice. I would think that it would raise awareness of the limitations of systems quite a bit (I know, I know, its your responsibility to learn this in the first place). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericb Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 Agreed....unfortunately, the economics need to be there. If it's going to happen, an author/publisher need to believe that there is enough of a market to justify the investment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bstach Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 Lots of stuff out there for those willing to use the google: http://student.kuleuven.be/~m9916724/physics/physics.htm http://bstorage.com/speleo/Pubs/rlenergy/Default.htm Just two examples. If you can't find more on your own...you wouldn't understand it anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jens Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 Lots of variables in a roped fall. Nearly impossible to simutlate repeatedly in a lab? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeletor Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 The Mountaineering Handbook by Craig Connelly has a lot of explanation about some of the physics of climbing, the forces of falls, etc. If I recall correctly, he's an engineer and a climber... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhamaker Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 Climbers are almost always behind spelunkers in maters of gear testing and physics. Try Spelunking sites. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bstach Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 A lot of those papers do assume quite a bit of physics knowledge, but its a good start. That coupled with an entry-level physics textbook would probably get the ball rolling. How do you write a climbing physics text with 'little physics'? Sounds like Freedom of the Hills. If you want to understand climbing physics, you need to understand physics. There is no shortcut. First year college course covering forces, vectors, Newtons laws, conservation of energy etc. is the absolute minimum. If you want to get fancy, then you move on to calculus, mechanics of deformable bodies etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dechristo Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 Makes a good title for the book: "Rock Climbing & the Mechanics of Deformable Bodies" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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