If you use a daisy chain, check this out

[Stuart]

I found a link to this over at Andy Kirkpatrick's website.

Probably the best way to explain one of the potential dangers of daisy chains I've seen.

http://www.bdel.com/videos/daisy.html

Yes, its "work safe".

[layton]

at first I was like, "wow!"

 

then i tried it. i was still clipped in at the end. so what was the difference. BD assumes that ALL THE BAR TACKS RIP, including the last one at the main clip-in loop. The only one that would tear is the one you short clipped into, leaving you still safely clipped in to the anchor.

 

So what's the point of the video?

[layton]

but where can i get that soundtrack!

Edited May 28, 2006 by michael_layton

[chirp]

I use the Metolius daisy, but regardless it seems to me that even when I did use the traditional "tacked" daisy it wasnt difficult to see how I was clipped in and to anticipate for such a loading.

[EWolfe]

Exactly. Self-preservation requires active processing of traditional thinking.

[catbirdseat]

Just tie a knot near the end loop and then always use the loop in addition to the bar tacked short loops. No need for separate carbiners that way.

[Stuart]

BD assumes that ALL THE BAR TACKS RIP, including the last one at the main clip-in loop. The only one that would tear is the one you short clipped into, leaving you still safely clipped in to the anchor.

 

So what's the point of the video?

 

Call me a cynic, but maybe BD are bringing out something to rival Metolius's anchor system.

Is it worth shifting this to Newbies?

[TBay]

the point of the video is to back yourself up with a clove-hitch or two at a belay.

 

but where can i get that soundtrack!

 

link

 

[hancockdn]

thanks to stuart for posting this video. i never understood why it wasn't ok to "short clip" my daisy. TBay is also right, it takes ten secconds to back yourself up with a clove-hitch on a belay. I wonder though, how much force would it take to rip out the stiching. i can't immagine enough force could be generated if all you do is use the daisy as a personal anchor at a belay.

[Squid]

BD assumes that ALL THE BAR TACKS RIP, including the last one at the main clip-in loop. The only one that would tear is the one you short clipped into, leaving you still safely clipped in to the anchor.

 

So what's the point of the video?

 

The pocket strength of a daisy chain is about 2kN, and the length of a daisy is about 1.4 meters.

If we assume a 1 meter static fall onto a short-clipped daisy, you'll generate about 8kN (I'll show my calculations if CBS insists). Your daisy will definitely blow at the bar-tack, and it will then continue blowing out bar-tacks until all of the force is dissapated.

 

I think the concern about how you use a daisy is valid. Someone suggested tying an overhand in the end of your daisy and always clipping the end- sounds like good advice to me.

[layton]

good advice about the overhand knot at the end!

[EWolfe]

You people are crazee! Why would anyone trust with their LIFE!

[ken4ord]

I found a link to this over at Andy Kirkpatrick's website.

Probably the best way to explain one of the potential dangers of daisy chains I've seen.

http://www.bdel.com/videos/daisy.html

Yes, its "work safe".

 

 

I still don't understand why people still use daisy chain??? Ok yes you can make them safe, so that what was demostrated in the video doesn't happen. The thing that get me why do I want to have a stupid strap wrapped around my waist that snags gear when you are trying clip unclip gear from your harness and it just an extra heavy sling that has limited purpose. What a waste.

 

What the hell is wrong with the rope you are tied into? Is it not strong enough? Does it offer too much flexibilty in adjusting yourself from the anchor? Or is it because the rope is dynamic and you decrease your chance of shock loading the anchor? Or is it because you have never learned how to tie a clove hitch?

[Gary_Yngve]

They can be useful for anchoring in prior to rappeling or for a temporary anchor when swapping climbers (e.g. someone ropegunning up everything). But a sling with a locker will certainly suffice.

[gavastik]

I still don't understand why people still use daisy chain???

 

Er... aid climbing?

[turn_one]

What the hell is wrong with the rope you are tied into? Is it not strong enough? Does it offer too much flexibilty in adjusting yourself from the anchor? Or is it because the rope is dynamic and you decrease your chance of shock loading the anchor? Or is it because you have never learned how to tie a clove hitch?

 

don't work so well when using that rope on rappel

[ken4ord]

What the hell is wrong with the rope you are tied into? Is it not strong enough? Does it offer too much flexibilty in adjusting yourself from the anchor? Or is it because the rope is dynamic and you decrease your chance of shock loading the anchor? Or is it because you have never learned how to tie a clove hitch?

 

don't work so well when using that rope on rappel

 

Oh yeah I forgot you left all the slings you started climbing with. As suggested by Gary, you already have slings and a locker. Tip: In case you still have all of your slings you can take a two foot sling, girth hitch to harness, clip two lockers onto it, clip rappel device onto one of the lockers (hopefully you are not the type to have a rappel device and a seperate belay device). Set up your rappel device with rope running through it, yes your device is now located two feet from harness, but guess what you have both hands on the brake line for more control. As you reach the anchor, clip the free locker biner into the anchor and continue rapping until you are tight on the anchor (this minimize risk of shock loading anchor). Undo rappel device. There are some downsides and that is why I don't always use this technique, they are if you have long hair it is easier to get your hair caught in your rappel device and it is very difficult to ascend the rope if needed.

 

 

Yes gavastik, that would be the proper use for a daisy chain. but I see a lot of people aiding using them incorrectly, in the way that was demostrated in the video. For the most part when I am aiding I tend use my daisy as prevention for dropping my aiders. A fifi is a more useful tool for temporarily anchoring and for anchoring at the end of the pitch I use the rope.