help with Permits... somewhat urgent...

[midwestern_alpine_hero]

So I am getting shafted by the rangers at Rainier. It is written on their website that you have a limit of 4 nights in the Camp Muir or Shurman zones, or in any zone I believe, to kind of control how many people are on the mountain and allow everyone a fair chance to summit, which is fine... but there is no information that I can find on what the different zones are, someone said in recent post that there is a summit zone, someone else told me that the Muir Snowfields isn't the same zone as Camp Muir etc. Anyway going on all this vague information I came up with the following plan... 2 nights at Muir Snowfield to get the glacier travel, crevasse rescue down and get somewhat acclimated to the altitude, followed by a 4 night period at Muir hoping to have the opportunity to beat my way past the hords of souls paying RMI to be dragged to the top etc.

 

BUT we just called Longmire Museum, cause the ranger station doesn't answer the phone, and they told us its 4 nights on the mountain total, some new rule, no indication was given on what zones constitute the mountain, when this rule came into effect, why the website gives somewhat contradictory information or anything else...

 

SO does anyone out there know what the deal is, anyone have numbers for an actual ranger that we can talk to to straighten this out?

[HernyG]

This is going to seem a little silly with two Chicagoans posting on this topic, but what the hell.

 

I read the rule to apply only to the two main corridors; through Camp Muir and Emmons. If the four-night rule is a problem for your party, shoot for Kautz Glacier or another route away from the crowd. My group may, depending on the permit days we get, be going over to Mt. Adams or similar first to acclimatize and get our group back in-sync prior to a planned Liberty Ridge attempt.

[Dan_Larson]

Big rat spotted running on the counter in the hut last weekend , no foolin'

[midwestern_alpine_hero]

Also, can anyone clarify what the boundaries for the different "zones" are... ?

[David_Parker]

MAH, I'm confused, why you want to spend that much time at Muir. Do you envision some euro style mountain hut or something? The place is gross: filled with CO2 and pot smoke, noisy, dark, and one night every ten years is enough for me! If you're thinking making a base camp with tents, go elsewhere and enjoy yourself. Also, at Muir you're not exactly close to crevasses for practising rescues. Camp Schurman is "the other" standard route and probably offers a better base camp for what you're thinking. It also has 2 camping areas if it gets crowded. I don't know what enforsement is for the number of nights you actually stay. Also, head climbing ranger Mike Gauthier posts here occasionaly and you could email him directly. He's a nice guy and might help you figure out the best plan for your group.

[Alex]

I cannot help with Zone, but I would be fairly surprised if there was significant enforcement of them. Consider that 4 nights > a weekend, and almost everywhere on the mountain will be deserted come Sunday night. I can't imagine anyone giving you a real hard time over permits if there is no one else around.

 

It sounds like you are planning a trip to Mt Rainier for crevasse practice, then a summit attempt? Might I suggest the following..? The first 2 days on the mountain, don't bother going up to the muir snowfield to camp. There really are (as has been alluded to) very few opportunities to practice crevasse rescue there. Instead, from Paradise head over to the base of the Nisqaully Gl, effectively the first 3rd of the approach to Kautz/Fuhrer Finger and Camp Hazard. There are PLENTY of crevasses there, and you should be able to find a really nice yet sheltered camp on the moraines in Nisqually Canyon. Pack for only 2 days. Then, when you are ready to go to Muir, head up to Panorama Point, cache your stuff, head down to the car (1 hour at most) get the other 4 days of food, and head up to Muir.

 

Lighter & faster

 

Cheers, Alex

[Figger_Eight]

I believe the two zones on the Muir are the Muir snowfield alpine zone, above Pebble Creek but not quite to Muir. The Muir zone is, well, Camp Muir.

 

Alex has a good plan for your goals - practice on the Nisqually then resupply for the summit. My advice is by-pass Camp Muir and bust straight up to Ingraham Flats. You'll get a headstart on the DC cattle drive in the morning, and there are less people there.

[CleeshterFeeshter]

I say that you should not worry about the permit. The whole system stinks and needs tuned up. Just go where the fuck you want and pay the fine. $50 fine (or whatever) aint no thing when compared to the overall time and expense of your vacation plan. Just tell the climbing ranger that you are from Chicago and was not familiar with the permit system. It is like leaving a picket,Ti screw or cam to extricate yourself from your hurtin plight. The fine is inconsequential to the memory.

[Mike_Gauthier]

here's some clarification. i looked into this question to see what the deal was (b/c i must admit that this rule is new and i wasn't quite aware of the "whys" and "hows" behind it.)

anyway, the new reg was put in place b/c we’ve had a problem the last few years with climbers "hoarding" reservations for the high camps, especially along the popular routes of muir and schurman. in the past, $20 allowed you lock up a few weekends (for some it was NUMEROUS weekends) during the best part of the summer. the problem was, those parties didn’t really intend to climb all of those weekends. instead, those parties would only show for the weekend that was most convenient (weather was usually a factor). well, this sounds smart, right? the problem, however, was that those parties locked up a LOT of space up at the popular high camps, thus preventing other climbers from being able to get permits. Keep in mind that it’s a VERY rare day that climbers actually cancel their unused permits in advance (or at all).

so, to protect the interests of other climbers, the nps implemented a few changes. 1. the nps now charges in advance for the climbing permit (i.e. you have to pay the $15 per person climbing fee when you reserve your permit) and 2. we limit the number of days you can reserve a permit on the most popular routes. again, this was done to prevent "permit hoarding."

if you want, you CAN camp up to 13 nights on the muir route (not something i would recommend)! but to do this, you must do this in person, at the ranger station, before your trip. otherwise, people would again be able to lock up numerous weekends with one permit (in theory, you could reserve 14 days, and lock up 2 weekends). why 4 nights? we chose 4 nights b/c 99.9% of the climbers normally stay 4 nights or less (the average is something just over 1 night.)

so, you CAN stay longer on the muir route. b/c it's rather unusual that someone stays more than 4 nights on the mountain, it would be highly unlikely that all of the spaces will be taken when you arrive to do this. and if the spots are taken, then they're going to be taken by people just like you, who got here before you... but jeez, i'd be rather surprised if this happened. more than likely, there will be space at the high camps for your extended trip. just ask the ranger to add the extra days on your permit.

i apologize for the confusion, your concern is noted. i hope you have a great trip, send me a PM if you have more specific questions.

best regards

mike

[JasonG]

GEEZ Dan, you're a regular fixture up at Muir! Are you posting from there right now??

[Son_of_Caveman]

quote:

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Originally posted by Heinrich:

GEEZ Dan, you're a regular fixture up at Muir! Are you posting from there right now??

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Dan's trying to pull a Viesters and get on with the Raindeer Guide Service.