backcountrydog Posted February 20, 2006 Posted February 20, 2006 about 2 years ago, i had sent an alien back to cch because the trigger sleeve had detached from the trigger, rendering it useless. as of a month ago, i still hadnt recieved it so i gave them a call hoping to get the replacement. the cam arrived a week later. a few days ago a friend and i were climbing. he was leading, using my rack. he placed the new alien, admiring its 'newness', gave it a tug...and the swage that completes the thumb loop completely failed. he was left holding the sewn sling in his hand. apparently the swage was never crimped or something. im going to give them a call on tuesday explaining the situation. its a little unnerving as i imagine lots of people who sent in defective cams might be getting an equally defective piece, maybe from the same batch as mine. there was no date or numbers stamped on this cam, only a small round sticker on the trigger w a number '9' on it. just a heads up to anyone w new aliens. Quote
billcoe Posted February 20, 2006 Posted February 20, 2006 Damn, that sucks to hear. Â I'd like to be suspicious since I don't know you and you didn't identify your friend either.....but I really have little faith left in CCH. Â Could you supply more details? This cam did not have the dimple and failed in a new manner..damn. Quote
backcountrydog Posted February 20, 2006 Author Posted February 20, 2006 im not sure what details you are looking for? the cam was brand new, shipped to me a few weeks ago. it was placed well, and recieved a slight tug, not a bounce test in aiders (although even if it had, it should not have failed). it took a small amount of effort for the cable to come out of the swage. the cam was retrieved by my partner holding the cable w one hand and pulling the trigger w the other. im not sure why anyone would make something like this up, but if 'suspicious' is your bag, enjoy. and i too am losing faith in cch. the recent issues w aliens should have caused a real tightening of quality control over there, but maybe its just exposing more holes in their system. maybe my partner will chime in. we were on jap gardens if that matters. and in all fairness, if the cam wouldnt have blown up, he woulda sent... Quote
AFIVE Posted February 20, 2006 Posted February 20, 2006 What color was it? You waited two years before calling and seeing what was up with them fixing your cam??? You are one patient dude! Quote
JosephH Posted February 20, 2006 Posted February 20, 2006 - When was it returned, can you pin it down better than "a couple of weeks ago"? Â - Which cam size? Â - Exactly what markings, if any, are on the cam (please look close)? Â - A photo would be quite helpful, can you take and post one or find someone that can? Quote
billcoe Posted February 20, 2006 Posted February 20, 2006 jap gardens....... if that matters. and in all fairness, if the cam wouldn’t have blown up, he woulda sent...  Well you obviously didn't get Toasts memo wherin he says anyone who say "Jap" Gardens instead of Japanese Gardens is a racist. The he yelled at me cause I disagreed.  Course, my wife is Japanese ancestry, and 2nd son has both Japanese and American citizenship, but I'm a racist against these people because I think people who say Jap gardens are just trying to shorten the word, like we all do with IMO and BTW. Like that. Course I'm not moving out of the house I don't care what he says.  I'll try not to be so lazy to shorten any of the wrong words but I can't promise since I'm so damn lazy as part of my genetic makeup.  However, (back on topic) GLAD TO HEAR that all it caused was your friend not sending and not something more severe........ like uhhhh.....death or full time quad ala Steve Reeves, also an inconvenience.  The deal is, CCH is suppose to be pull testing all (like in 100% of the) cams coming out of the CCH shop now. Soooo, wus up wid dat? Quote
backcountrydog Posted February 21, 2006 Author Posted February 21, 2006 ill try and answer the questions posted above... 1) im not sure of the exact date i recieved it but at the most, id say 4 weeks ago, maybe 3... 2) its the blue alien (smallest size) 3) as far as markings go, theres not much to tell. its definetly not a dimpled cam (that would really be out there for them to ship one of those out eh?) on the bottom of the trigger (cam side) is the "alien cch usa" stamp and on the top is a small (1/8" diameter) blue sticker w a number 9 written in pen on it. it might be a 6, or a d, or a b, or a q,...but it MOST resembles the number 9. i have meticulously looked over this cam and there are no other markings. i will post a few pictures tomorrow. there was nothing odd about the placement, vertical crack pulling straight down. not that it REally matters because it is plainly just a case of the copper not being crimped. the swage slides up and down the cable and the blue plastic sheath and the swage can slide off the end of the cable now... since they came out, i believed (like many) that aliens were/are the best small crack cam out there. i sure hope that all of their issues can be resolved and they can get back on track. chris Quote
catbirdseat Posted February 21, 2006 Posted February 21, 2006 Sounds like the problem was that the swage was never pressed at all, as opposed to having been done incorrectly. This sort of thing might have been revealed by careful inspection. Â When you buy a new expensive toy, naturally one gives it a good once over, before forking out the cash. Replacement gear should receive the same sort of inspection. Quote
lancegranite Posted February 21, 2006 Posted February 21, 2006 CBS is right, I have seen this problem at work before, somebody grabbed one off the wrong stack. Quote
JosephH Posted February 21, 2006 Posted February 21, 2006 Chris, Â Thanks so much for the post and pictures would be great. I'm with CBS and also suspect it was never swaged. It also sounds as though this occured after the Brazing episode began, but before they started getting serious about fixing it all - certainly before they started instituting pull testing all cams leaving the premises. I would bet this was an isolated incident in the initial Brazing Recall turmoil, but does speak to the need to carefully examine any gear you buy. These aren't simply consumer products like the rest of the crap we buy, and while we can and should expect the products we buy for climbing to be produced safely, we also have a role and responsibility in our own safety that includes carefully inspecting your gear before and after purchase and use. I have emailed Dave and Diane on this one and, Chris, please do call them today and let us know what they have to say. Quote
Blake Posted February 21, 2006 Posted February 21, 2006 2) its the blue alien (smallest size) Â Â The Black alien is the smallest, just trying to clear up confusion. Quote
catbirdseat Posted February 21, 2006 Posted February 21, 2006 It appears that they have subdivided operations for the sake of efficiency: 1) assemble cable and ferrule, put in a bin 2) take assembly out of bin press ferrule. It seems to me that even though it would be less efficient, the same person should do both operations at once to ensure it gets done. Quote
111 Posted February 21, 2006 Posted February 21, 2006 The main issue with CCH seems to be their lack of quality control. For this much shit (assuming it is all true) to have gone down in the last 6 months is rediculus. I own and will continue to use their gear, but my god! They need to learn from their mistakes! Quote
catbirdseat Posted February 22, 2006 Posted February 22, 2006 "rediculus!" Isn't that the incantation used against Bogerts in Harry Potter? Quote
lancegranite Posted February 22, 2006 Posted February 22, 2006 (edited) That nicosleeve was never pressed! The person who QC'd the piece should be fired. It does not take much imagination to see how this could have turned out....bad, very bad. Edited February 22, 2006 by lancegranite Quote
backcountrydog Posted February 22, 2006 Author Posted February 22, 2006 i talked with cch this morning and they said they hadnt heard of that happening before and to just send the piece in. Quote
JosephH Posted February 22, 2006 Posted February 22, 2006 Chris, Â Thanks so much for the photos. I also just spoke with Dave and this is a case that in the initial brazing turmoil Diane's effort to right your situation resulted in her grabbing one out of the "to-be-swaged" bin rather than the finished bin. Quote
backcountrydog Posted February 22, 2006 Author Posted February 22, 2006 i guess theres a few gaps that i could fill in that i didnt earlier. i waited 2 years before calling because when i sent the cam in originally i had several friends that 'warned' me about slow/poor customer service and one friend that had sent a cam for repairs and had to wait a year for its return. since i have about 5 or 6 cams in the 'small' range, i thought id just send the cam in with a letter saying how much i loved their cams and wait and see what happened. then all of the recent problems happened so i thought i better try and get it while they were still in business. the women i talked w on the phone said that they had tried to send me the cam prior but it was returned. she read me the address and it was mine, and correct. so about a week later the cam arrived. that was the first time i had spoken w anyone at cch so i cant confirm or deny the 'poor customer service' thing. i dont hold anything against them for the 2yr wait, although if it was me, i might have done it differently. and ya, my bad, black is the smallest size. thnks for the correction A5. and had i bounced tested the cam prior to climbing on it, it most likely would have revealed the problem. i did look it over as did 3 or 4 other climbers who saw it before i took it out climbing. but nothing looked out of the ordinary. all of my other aliens are kinda old. this one had a newer look and i guess ive never seen a swage on an alien that wasnt finished, so i missed it. no hate for cch here, i just hope they can recover from all the recent problems. Quote
korup Posted February 22, 2006 Posted February 22, 2006 I own and will continue to use their gear, but my god! Â You are a brave, brave man. I am shocked that anyone has any faith in any of the aliens on their rack.... seriously, if a company is sending unswaged crap out the door, in the midst of a deadly serious recall, why trust anything they've ever made? My life deserves real QC...... Quote
redneck_rocker Posted February 22, 2006 Posted February 22, 2006 ATTN: I am performing a community service to all cc'ers by destroying any and all suspect cch cams..I would be especially concerneed in any of you own the offset styles and should ship them to me immediatly...pm me for the appropriate address to mail them to... Quote
catbirdseat Posted February 22, 2006 Posted February 22, 2006 Keep it up. Soon we'll have 8 pages of dross, just like RC.com! Quote
ken4ord Posted February 23, 2006 Posted February 23, 2006 As much as all you guys have raved about aliens and how great they are, I just never really understood why. I never bought one, never really liked using them. I felt like they weren't beefy enough, and this was never based on facts, but what I thought. All these stories lately just reinforce my intuition I have had about aliens. I know if I had some on my rack I would be removing them pretty damn quick. Â What about other cams on the market? I can't recall any major malfunctions like what has happened lately. Anyone know of any? Quote
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