Did his pants just catch fire?!

[willstrickland]

 

George at the SOTU:

 

"So tonight, I announce the Advanced Energy Initiative – a 22-percent increase in clean-energy research at the Department of Energy, to push for breakthroughs in two vital areas. To change how we power our homes and offices, we will invest more in zero-emission coal-fired plants; revolutionary solar and wind technologies; and clean, safe nuclear energy."

 

That's funny, the people at DOE sing a different tune.

 

From the NY Times:

 

"The Energy Department will begin laying off researchers at the National Renewable Energy Laboratory in the next week or two because of cuts to its budget.

 

A veteran researcher said the staff had been told that the cuts would be concentrated among researchers in wind and biomass, which includes ethanol. Those are two of the technologies that Mr. Bush cited on Tuesday night as holding the promise to replace part of the nation's oil imports.

 

The budget for the laboratory, which is just west of Denver, was cut by nearly 15 percent, to $174 million from $202 million, requiring the layoff of about 40 staff members out of a total of 930, said a spokesman, George Douglas. The cut is for the fiscal year that began on Oct. 1."

[Dr_Flash_Amazing]

Why has Pat Robertson not yet called on God to strike this liar dead with a hurricane?

 

George W. Bush is a fucking idiot, any way you slice it. At the very least, he should be in jail, perhaps sharing a cell with his pal Saddam.

[chucK]

A related issue was reported yesterday on NPR of how the DOE is undermining states' efforts to push existing "green" coal plant technology.

 

NPR story

[Dechristo]

George W. Bush...should be in jail...sharing a cell with his pal Saddam...

 

"I'll cast you down with the Saddam-ites."

[knelson]

A related issue was reported yesterday on NPR of how the DOE is undermining states' efforts to push existing "green" coal plant technology.

 

Actually, it was the EPA... not the DOE.

 

Regarding the 22% increase in spending while laying off folks at the same time... dubya didn't say they were going to use that 22% increase for salary. It was just going to be a 22% increase in budget, correct? How much you want a bet all the extra money will be spent on grants to private companies. Any guess on who the beneficiaries of those grants will be? Hmmm....

[crazyjizzy]

A related issue was reported yesterday on NPR of how the DOE is undermining states' efforts to push existing "green" coal plant technology.

 

NPR story

 

I know a thing or two about power generation, and I have several questions about this story.

 

1) I could easily see coal gasification lowering emmissions of SO*2, and particulates. You would convert coal nC*xH*y into methane CH*4, and then burn it. The inorganics, and sulfur, would fall out in the "refining" process, just like at an oil refinery. And it would be easier to deal with the particulates there, than in a precipitator.

 

2) CO*2 emissions would continue. This is a seperate question, and different technology, than gasification. Capturing CO*2 could be applied to gas power plants, cars, etc. etc.

 

3) NO*x emmissions would continue.

 

4) Efficiency in KW/coal mass would decrease.

 

I recently spoke to a former co-worker who is very well aquainted with power generation, fuel cells, and pollution control. This is a situation where coal gasification would work nicely, but how to strip apart the H and C?

[Weekend_Climberz]

Stripping away the H from the C is not allowed and could potentially get you permanently banned from CC.com. Not to mention it is cruel to the horse.

[Dechristo]

Stripping away the H from the C is not allowed and could potentially get you permanently banned from CC.com. Not to mention it is cruel to the horse.

 

Oh, yeah? How's this:

 

orse-ock.

[mattp]

Where he really told a whopper was when he said we have "relentlessly" sealed off the border so terrorists can't get into Iraq.

 

That and when he continued to try to link Iraq and 911, and ...

[Dr_Flash_Amazing]

 

That and when he continued to try to link Iraq and 911, and ...

 

Is this more sad, comical, or infuriating?

[catbirdseat]

2C +2H2O --> 2CO + 2H2 (coal gas) -?-> CO2 + CH4

 

Now, what to do with the CO2?

[Dr_Flash_Amazing]

Feed it to the trees!

[catbirdseat]

Feed it to the trees!

What trees?

[mattp]

 

That and when he continued to try to link Iraq and 911, and ...

 

Is this more sad, comical, or infuriating?

 

Sad was that I didn't notice any commentators or the Dem response call him on it. That opening section was very carefully written to convey that impression or at least reaffirm that impression among the "believers" without actually saying it, so maybe they are afraid of the denials they'd get in response, but I hate to see the neocons get a free pass on this issue over and over again for - what - going on five years?

[Dechristo]

Now, what to do with the CO2?

 

I'll C yO2, and raze yO2.

[crazyjizzy]

2C +2H2O --> 2CO + 2H2 (coal gas) -?-> CO2 + CH4

 

Now, what to do with the CO2?

 

No quite right. Coal is more correctly thought of as a hydrocarbon. Coal gas is another hydrocarbon. The reason you want to make coal-gas, is to decrease air-borne particulates, Hg, and SO*x, which would be a refractory product of the refining process.

 

They (the DOE) claims that because the temperature of combustion at the gas-turbine will be less than about 2000ºC, NOx will not form. But I wonder why would the T at the gas turbine be less than 2000ºC? Every gas turbine I have worked on had catylic converters for NOx.

 

The production of H*2 gas would take place after the creation of "coal gas", which is probably a simple hydrocarbon.

[catbirdseat]

Coal can be anything from anthracite, which is mostly carbon to bituminous coal, which contains a great deal of hydrogen and "heteroatoms" such as O, N, S, etc. If all coal were anthracite, we wouldn't have quite the problems with sulfur and mercury.

 

Indeed, as you say, natural gas burns cleanly without particulates and heavy metals, etc., but to make it from coal, you do need hydrogen from somewhere, and the carbon has to go somewhere.

 

Natural gas from the ground already has four hydrogen atoms for every carbon. If you start from coal you generally have to get your hydrogen from water, but that hydrogen is in a "low energy" state. The upshot is that whether you burn coal or methane made from coal, you end up producing about the same quantity of CO2 per unit of coal. If you don't have some way of trapping it, CO2 goes into the atmosphere as a greenhouse gas.

 

So it may well be that there are environmental and perhaps even economic reason for coal gasification, but it not the solution to global warming, in case anyone thought that was the case.

[jkeller]

Feed it to the trees!

 

No, you feed it it algae and make biodiesel:

 

"Using the sun as a free energy source, GreenFuel's proprietary smart emissions management system recycles up to 86% of NOX and 40% of CO2 from smokestack gases into renewable clean air biofuels™ competitive with conventional fossil fuel products, generating revenue by decreasing emissions."

 

www.greenfuelonline.com

[crazyjizzy]

Coal can be anything from anthracite, which is mostly carbon to bituminous coal, which contains a great deal of hydrogen and "heteroatoms" such as O, N, S, etc. If all coal were anthracite, we wouldn't have quite the problems with sulfur and mercury. My economic geology textbook gives S as between .2% and 7% volume. Hg is going to be partitioned into the organic matter, look at the Hg outfall from pulpmills.

 

Indeed, as you say, natural gas burns cleanly without particulates and heavy metals, etc., but to make it from coal, you do need hydrogen from somewhere, and the carbon has to go somewhere. They are running medium pressure steam thru the plie, to strip out H*2

 

Natural gas from the ground already has four hydrogen atoms for every carbon. If you start from coal you generally have to get your hydrogen from water, but that hydrogen is in a "low energy" state. The upshot is that whether you burn coal or methane made from coal, you end up producing about the same quantity of CO2 per unit of coal. If you don't have some way of trapping it, CO2 goes into the atmosphere as a greenhouse gas. And that is where they are trying to sell us a bill of goods. Furthermore, why are they suddenly saying that the gas turbines will run 600º cooler than industry norm?

 

So it may well be that there are environmental and perhaps even economic reason for coal gasification, but it not the solution to global warming, in case anyone thought that was the case. Most of this is just DOE double speak. The company I used to work for did a huge project for the DOE on coal-gasification in Montana in 1993. Nothing became of it. The power industry IMO will continue to use Natural Gas Turbines, and big Fire Box Boilers

[olyclimber]

I really like your use of the blue color in your writing. but it seemed pretty boring so I skipped it.

[catbirdseat]

Writing is boring if it contains information.