Climate change and US policy.

[fear_and_greed]

What's wrong with you pricks down there? What's its going to take to make you realize that this should be the number 1 issue to cooperate on. In the future without a healthy planet nothing else will exist.

"Delegates said U.S. climate negotiator Harlan Watson walked out of a session of talks overnight, saying host Canada's proposal for dialogue on long-term actions was tantamount to entering negotiations.

 

"By walking out of the room, this shows just how willing the U.S. administration is to walk away from a healthy planet and its responsibilities," said Jennifer Morgan, climate change expert for environmental group WWF.

[JackY]

 

Who are you talking to? I thought you Canadians would have the sense to realize that we don't all support the current administration.

[Camilo]

What's wrong with you pricks down there? What's its going to take to make you realize that this . . .

Yeah, sorry about that. We just don't care.

[cj001f]

What's wrong with you pricks down there? What's its going to take to make you realize that this . . .

Yeah, sorry about that. We just don't care.

Did you see the OC last night? It was awesome!

[Mal_Con]

We are too busy bringing freedom, democracy, and Mr. Pocky Lips to the mideast to worry about the future of the planet, oh yhea and preventing gays from marrying.

[foraker]

Aren't you guys the ones chopping down all your trees?

[catbirdseat]

Yes, as Chongo put it, Americans have the government they deserve, even though you Canadians never did anything to deserve it.

[TREETOAD]

We don't cut down trees, we sold all our forest companies to you guys and the Japanese so that we can blame all this shit on someone else. Then we sell raw logs overseas and the foreign owned companies that own the mills here shut them dowm its called private enterprise.

[JayB]

What's wrong with you pricks down there? What's its going to take to make you realize that this should be the number 1 issue to cooperate on. In the future without a healthy planet nothing else will exist.

"Delegates said U.S. climate negotiator Harlan Watson walked out of a session of talks overnight, saying host Canada's proposal for dialogue on long-term actions was tantamount to entering negotiations.

 

"By walking out of the room, this shows just how willing the U.S. administration is to walk away from a healthy planet and its responsibilities," said Jennifer Morgan, climate change expert for environmental group WWF.

 

You guys are currently number three in terms of C02 emissions per-capita, and as Alberta's fossil resources get developed, you may well edge out Australia for the number two spot. Go Canada!

CO2 Emissions Per Capita

 

But don't get discouraged, you currently emit more CO2 per unit-GDP than the United States, so you have actually got us beat in terms of energy-ineficiency! Way to go!

CO2 Emissions Per Unit GDP

 

The best part about this whole thing is that according to the BBC:

 

"Canada, one of the treaty's first signatories, has no clear plan for reaching its target emission cuts. Far from cutting back, its emissions have increased by 20% since 1990. "

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/

 

Awesome! Keep that empty sanctimony coming! Super-bonus points if you can correctly state the fraction of a degree Celsius that a fully-implemented accord would actually reduce global temperatures by in 2050.

 

I do have to concede that it would have been much, much better politics to sign the thing and ignore it like everyone else but Iceland. That was the real mistake.

[Dr_Flash_Amazing]

You guys are currently number three in terms of C02 emissions per-capita, and as Alberta's fossil resources get developed, you may well edge out Australia for the number two spot. Go Canada!

CO2 Emissions Per Capita

 

But don't get discouraged, you currently emit more CO2 per unit-GDP than the United States, so you have actually got us beat in terms of energy-ineficiency! Way to go!

CO2 Emissions Per Unit GDP

 

The best part about this whole thing is that according to the BBC:

 

"Canada, one of the treaty's first signatories, has no clear plan for reaching its target emission cuts. Far from cutting back, its emissions have increased by 20% since 1990. "

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/

 

Awesome! Keep that empty sanctimony coming! Super-bonus points if you can correctly state the fraction of a degree Celsius that a fully-implemented accord would actually reduce global temperatures by in 2050.

 

I do have to concede that it would have been much, much better politics to sign the thing and ignore it like everyone else but Iceland. That was the real mistake.

 

Setting aside, for a moment, the fact that you are a shameless right-wing putz ( ), that was pretty funny.

[stinkyclimber]

And all very true. I say that as someone working on the climate change file here in Canada. Believe me, Canadians have NOTHING to be proud of when it comes to action on climate change. All those stats from Jay are bang on: Canada's GHG emissions are up 24% since 1990, while the US is only up 12% (of course, most countries in Europe are almost all the way to, or past the target of 6% below 1990 emissions levels, even the UK). And we can't blame a cold climate, a hot economy or anything else. We just haven't done fuck all on this except be sanctimonious.

 

Having said that, the US can't be sanctimonious either. We are both fuckups on this.

[fear_and_greed]

Jay, stick your head back in the sandbox. The USA emits roughly 11 times the amount of CO2 that Canada does.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/env_co2_emi

Thus, per captia and per unit GDP are meaningless compared to the total output.

It's going to take the cooperation of all nations to agree on a solution and implement an action plan so that our childrens children have a world to live in.

Having the negotiator of the nation that is the largest single emitter throwing a temper tantrum and walking out is disgusting.

[JayB]

Hey - way to get back on your feet after getting a fact-based, cross-border beat-down! If Alberta and BC can successfully compensate for the GDP-Growth-anchor effect that the maritime provinces and Les Quebecois currently shackle Canada's trend GDP growth with, and the average Canadian produces as much in dollar terms as the average American, you'll have us beat in CO2 emissions per capita too!

 

But hey - back to that argument of yours. If I understand you correctly, a country's environmental virtue has nothing to do with CO2 emissions per capita, or energy efficiency (CO2 output per-unit GDP) and everything to do signing treaties that it doesn't actually implement. Treaties that under even the most optimistic projections, will have a statistically insignificant impact on trend global temperatures and CO2 levels, and ignore the emissions from two of the largest and most rapidly expanding economies on the world. That's awesome! By this logic, I can live the same lifestyle, and even produce goods and services in a less energy efficient manner, and so long as I do both north of the border I am no longer a selfish, Earth-destroying prick. I'm moving to Canada!

[cj001f]

the key to environmental virtue has nothing to do with CO2 emissions per capita

Jay-

Until you move away from CO2 producing transport your per capita statistic is inherently skewed to bias densely populated countries, like those dastardly Europeans. Wouldn't want the french to win, would we

[JoshK]

JayB, the Bush administration could use good men like you.

 

It's good to see Clinton has sent a friendly fuck u to the bushco and spoke at the climate change meeting taking place in Montreal.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/americas/12/09/climate.clinton.ap/index.html

 

Good for him.

 

 

Oh, and since somebody needs to point it out: climate treaties are MEANINGLESS without our fucking government getting in on it. As pointed out, we are responsible for 3/4 of the garbage so we need to get on board. It isn't easy to rally the world to change if we just sit there. We are the hegemon, we need to act like it. Quit letting our government get away with shirking our responsibility. People need to realize it is ***US***, as Americans, (or any first world citizen) that stand the most to lose, not the Chinese or Zambiens or whoever else we try to push the impetus on.

[JayB]

Dude - you've got it all wrong. If the logic presented in F&G's retort is correct, then all the US needs to do to become a paragon of eco-virtue is to dissolve itself into an arbitrary number of statelets that each have a population that is small relative to Canada's, and per-capita emissions will no longer matter, since each statelet's C02 output will be insignificant relative to Canada's gross output of CO2. To top it all off, we will then also be entitled to perpetually spout infinite quantities of sanctimonious rhetoric at them for their wasteful, environmentally callous lifestyles even though we're living the same way that they are.

[Cobra_Commander]

spout infinite quantities of sanctimonious rhetoric

 

read any good jayb posts recently

[crazyjizzy]

You guys are currently number three in terms of C02 emissions per-capita, and as Alberta's fossil resources get developed, you may well edge out Australia for the number two spot. Go Canada!

CO2 Emissions Per Capita

 

But don't get discouraged, you currently emit more CO2 per unit-GDP than the United States, so you have actually got us beat in terms of energy-ineficiency! Way to go!

CO2 Emissions Per Unit GDP

 

I wonder what these stat's really say? Saudi Arabia is really high on both, and almost their entire GDP is petroleum exporting. Do they actually have high CO*2 emmisions due to burning of off gas, or are these statistics flawed?