Chouinard attacks Bush

[EWolfe]

Chouinard-like attacks Bush for red nuts

[Dru]

That'd be a Coonyard coon.

[Stonehead]

--snip--

 

When scientists announced last month they had determined the exact order of all 3 billion bits of genetic code that go into making a chimpanzee, it was no surprise that the sequence was more than 96 percent identical to the human genome. Charles Darwin had deduced more than a century ago that chimps were among humans' closest cousins.

 

But decoding chimpanzees' DNA allowed scientists to do more than just refine their estimates of how similar humans and chimps are. It let them put the very theory of evolution to some tough new tests.

 

If Darwin was right, for example, then scientists should be able to perform a neat trick. Using a mathematical formula that emerges from evolutionary theory, they should be able to predict the number of harmful mutations in chimpanzee DNA by knowing the number of mutations in a different species' DNA and the two animals' population sizes.

 

"That's a very specific prediction," said Eric Lander, a geneticist at the Broad Institute of MIT and Harvard in Cambridge, Mass., and a leader in the chimp project.

 

Sure enough, when Lander and his colleagues tallied the harmful mutations in the chimp genome, the number fit perfectly into the range that evolutionary theory had predicted.

 

Their analysis was just the latest of many in such disparate fields as genetics, biochemistry, geology and paleontology that in recent years have added new credence to the central tenet of evolutionary theory: That a smidgeon of cells 3.5 billion years ago could -- through mechanisms no more extraordinary than random mutation and natural selection -- give rise to the astonishing tapestry of biological diversity that today thrives on Earth.

 

Evolution's repeated power to predict the unexpected goes a long way toward explaining why so many scientists and others are practically apoplectic over the recent decision by a Pennsylvania school board to treat evolution as an unproven hypothesis, on par with "alternative" explanations such as Intelligent Design (ID), the proposition that life as we know it could not have arisen without the helping hand of some mysterious intelligent force.

 

Today, in a courtroom in Harrisburg, Pa., a federal judge will begin to hear a case that asks whether ID or other alternative explanations deserve to be taught in a biology class. But the plaintiffs, who are parents opposed to teaching ID as science, will do more than merely argue that those alternatives are weaker than the theory of evolution.

 

They will make the case -- plain to most scientists but poorly understood by many others -- that these alternatives are not scientific theories at all.

 

"What makes evolution a scientific explanation is that it makes testable predictions," Lander said. "You only believe theories when they make non-obvious predictions that are confirmed by scientific evidence."

 

Lander's experiment tested a quirky prediction of evolutionary theory: that a harmful mutation is unlikely to persist if it is serious enough to reduce an individual's odds of leaving descendants by an amount that is greater than the number one divided by the population of that species.

 

The rule proved true not only for mice and chimps, Lander said. A new and still unpublished analysis of the canine genome has found that dogs, whose numbers have historically been greater than those of apes but smaller than for mice, have an intermediate number of harmful mutations -- again, just as evolution predicts.

 

"Evolution is a way of understanding the world that continues to hold up day after day to scientific tests," Lander said.

 

By contrast, said Alan Leshner, chief executive of the American Association for the Advancement of Science, Intelligent Design offers nothing in the way of testable predictions.

 

"Just because they call it a theory doesn't make it a scientific theory," Leshner said. "The concept of an intelligent designer is not a scientifically testable assertion."

 

Asked to provide examples of non-obvious, testable predictions made by the theory of Intelligent Design, John West, an associate director of the Discovery Institute, a Seattle-based ID think tank, offered one: In 1998, he said, an ID theorist, reckoning that an intelligent designer would not fill animals' genomes with DNA that had no use, predicted that much of the "junk" DNA in animals' genomes -- long seen as the detritus of evolutionary processes -- will someday be found to have a function.

 

--snip--

 

New Analyses Bolster Central Tenets of Evolution Theory--Washington Post, 9/26/05

[Dru]

The evolutionary biologists already know that so-called junk DNA has a function. Don't these guys read Scientific American?

[Fairweather]

...And meanwhile, Chouinard/Patagonia gives $15,000 per year to The Ruckus Society. You may remember them as the riotous bunch that crashed the WTO event in Seattle a few years back. I would propose that 'ol Yvonne has an agenda already.

 

Oh yea, I still haven't seen evidence - other than the word of a washed-up old man - that Bush actually believes that which he is already convicted of here. I'm sure there is plenty you guys can use to beat up GW with...without just making shit up.

 

http://www.activistcash.com/organization_financials.cfm/oid/188

Edited September 27, 2005 by Fairweather

[Stonehead]

I've not heard or seen anything that supports the idea that Bush believes the Earth is only 6000 years old. I do, however, recall that he supports the idea that Intelligent Design be taught in science classes along with Evolution as a competing theory for the diversity of life.

 

[cj001f]

other than the word of a washed-up old man

He's done more conservation through free market princples than any of your washed up ideologue blowhards.

http://www.patagonialandtrust.org/

[Fairweather]

So how do you explain the $$$ to Ruckus Society? Makes me wonder what other fringe outfits he's feeding. Also, no mention of their fringe contributions on their company site.

 

Hey, does Patagonia use the same overseas sweat-shops as WalMart? Another reason I only buy ArcTeryx!! They haven't sent good Canadian jobs to child/prison/endentured servitude labor in third-world countries. I will gladly pay more...but usually don't. Hey! Maybe Patagonia is taking all that extra profit they've saved in payroll and are giving a whole 1% of it back to mother earth! How noble.

 

BTW; your link doesn't work.

Edited September 27, 2005 by Fairweather

[Dru]

1% is still ONE MILLION TIMES MORE than "nothing"

[Fairweather]

Dru, here I am - putting in a good word for your Canuk brethern - an still you side with the enviro-radicals. Damn. There just aint no gettin' through to you, boy!

[griz]

patagonia does around $250 million in sales a year in recent years...

 

$2.5 million in donations for environmental causes every year= nothing to sneeze at

[fear_and_greed]

Nice headline.

[Dru]

Dru, here I am - putting in a good word for your Canuk brethern - an still you side with the enviro-radicals. Damn. There just aint no gettin' through to you, boy!

 

Patagucci, as a business, can and do engage in whaever tactics they feel will increase their sales. In this case, being green fits the wealthy environmentalist market they sell to. If you would applaud them for funding the NRA then how can you fault them for funding the Ruckus Society? The ethical principle is the same.

[Stonehead]

Is the issue really Chouinard vs. Bush, who's the better man?? Isn't the issue whether Bush relies on faith or science to base some of his policy decisions, or rather whether Bush supports faith-based initiatives that concur with a Biblical perspective? Isn't that Bush's paradigm?

[EWolfe]

What woories me is the latter bleeding into the former.

[Dru]

Bush = chimp.

Chimp DNA sequenced.

Therefore it is now possible to determine just exactly how Bush differs from a human.

[Fairweather]

Dru, here I am - putting in a good word for your Canuk brethern - an still you side with the enviro-radicals. Damn. There just aint no gettin' through to you, boy!

 

Patagucci, as a business, can and do engage in whaever tactics they feel will increase their sales. In this case, being green fits the wealthy environmentalist market they sell to. If you would applaud them for funding the NRA then how can you fault them for funding the Ruckus Society? The ethical principle is the same.

 

No. It's not. The NRA doesn't overtly support illegal activities or the destruction of public and private property as a form of protest. The NRA works within the system to forward their agenda. Not so The Ruckus Society, as their Seattle/WTO turnout so demonstrated. Gave all you "sincere" protesters a bad name too, if I recall.

[JoshK]

Hey, does Patagonia use the same overseas sweat-shops as WalMart? Another reason I only buy ArcTeryx!! They haven't sent good Canadian jobs to child/prison/endentured servitude labor in third-world countries.

 

Really? last arc'teryx product I bought was made in some southeast asian country. It certainly wasn't canadia.

[Fairweather]

Hey, does Patagonia use the same overseas sweat-shops as WalMart? Another reason I only buy ArcTeryx!! They haven't sent good Canadian jobs to child/prison/endentured servitude labor in third-world countries.

 

Really? last arc'teryx product I bought was made in some southeast asian country. It certainly wasn't canadia.

 

 

FUCK! I misspelled indentured! Anyway, I wasn't aware of a change in their labor strategy. Maybe I've missed a recent change in the company's business model. (?) Too bad if it's true.

[Dru]

Sourcing labour to poorer countries helps alleviate global poverty. I read it in The Economist so it must be true. Fairweather wants people in poorer countries to starve by paying rich people much more money to do the jobs poor people are willing to do for less money. This is a MISALLOCATION OF RESOURCES! Next thing you know he will be joining A UNION

[pbelitz]

Patagonia makes good clothing at a good price, and it fits me well. I like their products.

 

Chouinard is a radical left-wing whacko. He supports some good causes, and some organizations that I don't like.

 

I generally support their theme of conservation, but I do not believe that conservation is the absolute greatest of our concerns when it comes to politics. I see conservation and ecologically friendly human survival as an individual's, more than the government's, duty.

 

Their ad campaign pisses me off. Particularly when a climbing bum who has lived in a tree his entire life tells me who to vote for. Because a person has the ability to pull harder than me doesn't make him qualified to preach about anything that catches his fancy. Dean Potter is not a political pundit, and his political opinions are about as valuable to me as Dave Schuldt's. Fuck off, assholes.

 

Bottom line - Patagonia has a definite holier-than-thou attitude, but I generally support their actions and I will certainly keep buying their products.

[Fairweather]

Sourcing labour to poorer countries helps alleviate global poverty. I read it in The Economist so it must be true. Fairweather wants people in poorer countries to starve by paying rich people much more money to do the jobs poor people are willing to do for less money. This is a MISALLOCATION OF RESOURCES! Next thing you know he will be joining A UNION

 

I'll accept your rhetorical response as an admission of defeat. BTW; it's l-a-b-o-r.

[chirp]

groundbreaking WHAM-O® products originate right here in the WHAM-O workshop, but we also work with inventors. For instance, FRISBEE and HACKY SACK are two brands that originated as inventions outside WHAM-O.

 

Unfortunately due to confidentiality and liability concerns, WHAM-O does not accept unsolicited product ideas.

 

Do not send unsolicited inventions to WHAM-O! We are not responsible for unsolicited submissions. To submit a product idea to Wham-O, you must do two things:

 

First: Submit your idea through an inventor's agent. An inventor agent represents inventors and finds the best potential home for each client's inventions.

 

Second: Sign a WHAM-O Inventor Release form. This form outlines what ideas you are showing WHAM-O and also acknowledges that WHAM-O may have either seen similar ideas from other inventors or have a similar idea in its current or past development slate.

 

[darstog]

Go ahead and check the labels of a great deal of the new Arc'Teryx products. Gloves, sportswear are almost all made overseas. As far as Patagonia goes, there surely must be somebody who reads this site that can attest to the working conditions in factories producing Patagonia products. I don't think this thread is about who's a better person (Yvon or W), I think this is about isolating some very discouraging aspects of how the LEADER OF THE FREE WORLD looks at said world (as 7,000 years old). As far as not having definitive evidence of W's beliefs, one need only logic: Proponents of ID believe that the world is only 7,000 years old. George Bush is obviously a proponent of ID. Ergo George Bush believes (and does not deny otherwise) that the world is 7,000 years old. Now, if one wants to be open minded and say, "Hey, I'm open minded, lets let them teach a couple of theories, evolution and ID," one needs to bear in mind how absolutely shortsighted this is and how it only teaches science and the Judeo-Christian ideas. If you're going to open the gates and teach non scientific (religious) ideas about the history of the universe, it's racist/xenophobic/close-minded/wrong to only teach those of Fundamentalist Christian theories. If Bush wasn't trying to push his Fundamentalist Christian beliefs on EVERY CHILD IN THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS, and was only trying to open the minds of others, surely he would be asking that a great many ideas/creation stories/mythologies are taught. Aboriginal Austrailians believe that all animals and humans were formed from the earth. You don't see W pushing that idea into the public schools, only close-minded Judeo-Christian ideas. Let's take a look at those who believe that the earth is 7,000 years old: Orthodox Jews, Conservative Catholics, Mormons, Fundamentalist Christians, and a few other groups of really, really welcoming, loving individuals. And if we want irony, we need look no further than the fact that Texas oil money comes from (duh) oil, which takes millions upon millions of years for nature to produce. Or maybe the intelligence put it undeground for us. So the intelligence put forests for us to take trees? You proud, squid?

[cj001f]

Hey, does Patagonia use the same overseas sweat-shops as WalMart? Another reason I only buy ArcTeryx!!

 

BTW; your link doesn't work.

 

If you'd read further on Patagonia you'd know that they are commited to fair labor practices overseas and make some of their pieces (capilene) in the US. They make excellent quality clothing that they are willing to back up with a true guaranty (unlike, cough, the North Face). I do notice a few too many SUV's in the parking lot for such a stridently environmental company; I also see the large bike parking lot and a fleet of hybrids.

 

Do I think Bush really believes in a 6,000 year creation of the earth? No. Is pandering to the people who do despicable? Yes.

 

PS: The link works fine. The page doesn't display properly in pinko Mozilla, but does in IE.