kevbone Posted June 15, 2006 Posted June 15, 2006 "No human involvement". Well thats a little hipocritical dont you think? Hundreds of thousands of hikers/podestrians climb the path to the top every year. A fellow climber rappelled into the nest one year (when it was on big ledge) and pulled out a coke can and a snickers bar rapper. Climbers do not use these items when climbing. Clearly human involvement. Close the entire rock! For the birds! I know this will never change out there. But once again, mostly our frustration comes from the 2 faced politics behind it all. Not at you Joe. Keep up the good work. Quote
JosephH Posted June 15, 2006 Author Posted June 15, 2006 "No human involvement" means no active human assistance of any kind in non-urban settlement and reproduction. Kevin, all I can respond is the WDFW cut the best deal they could given the WSP felt constrained by the original purchase terms to not close the trail. Again, I want it open as bad as you or anyone else, but at this point I really have to say there is no "they" and really no much of an "us". There are just real flesh and blood humans with names trying to do the right thing on all sides. And in the end I still have to ask what is served by all the angst - Erik, John, and David are just trying do their jobs as best they can while juggling a lot of competing interests. There was and is no "2 faced" politics - only folks that were negotiating on behalf of the falcons trying to get the best deal they could and that's what they got. If you look behind both sides of that negotiation between WDFW and WSP you'd see both their hands were essentially tied and they compromised as best they could given the cards that they were dealt - we have to move on do the same. It really is pointless to keep slamming your head against all this that way but again it's your deal and the only mind I'm really prepared to change is my own... Quote
kevbone Posted June 15, 2006 Posted June 15, 2006 Thanks Joseph, I know its makes no sense to keep beating my head against the wall. But when I say 2 faced I mean, a while ago we (climbers and biologist) had a meeting in Stevenson, and the biologist said openly “I don’t want any persons within 300 feet of the nest”. It was then pointed out, openly, that the trail to the top is 200 feet from the nest, and we, by his own words need to close the entire rock, the biologist then proceeded to change the subject. I believe this is the 2 faced politics I am pointing out. You were not at this meeting to watch a Beacon Rock official ( I don’t remember his title) get pissed we even considered closing the whole rock, he proceeded to state how his wife climbs the trail 5 days a week for morning exercise. It is this kind of politics that has frustrated local climbers for a long time. That one meeting sparked a lot of distrust towards the parties in control of the rock. Once again, I know it makes no difference, just thought you might want to know where all the distrust comes from. Quote
JosephH Posted June 19, 2006 Author Posted June 19, 2006 ================================================= Beacon Rock Update - 6/19/06 - BEACON IS OPEN!!!! ================================================= Beacon Rock Early Opening Beacon Rock is open as of today...!!! After a a couple of months of fantastic cooperative effort by Washington Dept. of Fish and Wildlife [WDFW] (David Anderson / Raptor Management Plans), Washington State Parks [WSP] (Lisa Lantz / SW Resource Steward), and the Beacon Rock State Park staff [bRSP] (Erik Plunkett, John Ernster, Breanne Jordan, Gabe Bailey) we are open almost a month early. This past Thursday through Sunday was a particularly strong push by everyone involved to make this early opening possible. The short story is a whole lot of folks, especially all of those above, went way out of their way and above the call of duty to contribute their time and effort to make this all possible. So what can you do to contribute now that Beacon is open? Well, the South face is now cleared of all significant threats of rockfall but the trail at the base looks like a war zone from the combination of the New Year's rock fall and our day-long trundling session. All in all several tons of rock came down. What would be a great help is if everyone who goes out could just pick and clear a short stretch of the base trail when you go out. If everyone would do this we'd have it back to normal in a week or two. For a long version events and the gory details read on... Timeline of 2006 events: * Feb 1st / Climbing closure per the Peregrine Management Plan - Closure in Febuary, March, and Early April insures there are no external influences on the Peregrine's choice of the location of their scrape (nest). This is an imperative part of the plan as Peregrines are under much stress from mating and scrape competition such that they are highly sensitive to any of a myriad of influences relative to settling down onto a scrape to attempt to hatch and fledge young. Our not climbing during this period eliminates one controllable source in an otherwise highly stressful part of the Peregrine's mating / nesting cycle. * April 1st / Active monitoring of the Peregrines begins - Last year, for the first time, the Peregrines did not use their usual Big Ledge scrape. The two Raven's nests above the parking lot on the high East face were likewise unoccupied. But the Peregrines did likely fledge somewhere on Beacon last year as they were consistently present and active there on a daily basis and the South face base, ledges, and column tops were strewn with much evidence of predation in the form of discarded wing sets and large feather circles on column tops and ledges - both from birds they had killed and eaten. We do not know either why they did not use Big Ledge last year or where on the rock their scrape might have been. We do know that the survey of the Big Ledge scrape last year in early July found the scrape completely engulfed by Cheat Grass and it is possible that had some influence on the birds decision to not use it; but we don't know for sure. My own monitoring had me convinced they were successful on the high East face in 2005, but I could never prove it with consistent observations. But, regardless, they did fledge a chick successfully in 2005 and after observing a parent take the fledge out to teach it to hunt we opened last year's season about a week early. This year was a somewhat different story. Upwards of four Peregrines were active with courtship / pairing flight behavior in early April with a pair forming that attempted to nest on the Big Ledge scrape. Some time in early May David Anderson and other monitors observed that pair were no longer spending time on Big Ledge and in fact we now know the evidence from last Thursday's survey of the scrape was consistent with the pair abandoning the scrape about that time. Peregrines are known to sometimes require two attempts to fledge, at the same or a different location, so monitoring continued through May and early June in the hopes pinning down a second attempt. By early June, however, a pattern began to emerge of many sightings East of Beacon, often towards Hamilton Mountain. That, combined with less frequent perching and sightings around Beacon along with a complete lack of signs of predation along Beacon's South face base began to make it clear if the Peregrines managed a second attempt it wasn't taking place at Beacon. Coincidental to this, and for some unknown reason, the Ravens this year decided to return to their old nests high on the East face yielding a complete explosion of about a dozen young, manic, and incredibly noisy Ravens who completely dominate the East side of Beacon. Pretty much anything flying in their vicinity is fair game, lively entertainment, and mercilessly harassed. While not knowing if the Raven's presence this year made any difference to the Peregrines in general, there is some suspicion it may have kept them from considering a high East face scrape. * June 7th / Understanding this emerging pattern of observations could signal a possible early open the BRCA filed a plan with the BRSP for a second annual Pre-Opening Work Session for 2006 to clear both a decade's worth of accumulated rock on the Grassy Ledges and the strewn results of the New Year's rock fall from the SE corner ridge. Last year we had three fairly close calls of significant rock fall in the SE Corner base and Tunnel #1 vicinity while climbers were present. The situation changed from one of concern to one of alarm after the New Year's rock fall which further showered the Grassy Ledges and indeed the entire SE flank with a heavy load of shattered rock hanging above the start of the SE Corner route. * Thursday, June 15th / Armed with everyone's monitoring observations, David Anderson made the call that we should survey the Big Ledge scrape and based on what we brought back in the way of pictures, plant, and predation evidence he and Lisa Lantz gave WDFW's and WSP's approval for BRSP to authorize our 2006 Pre-Opening Work Session for the next day, Friday, June 16th. They further gave their permission to immediately rap down to the base of the SE corner ridge to survey the site of the New Year's rockfall to see if we were dealing with anything large enough to effect rail traffic. That was very important, because the railroad holds real power; it can and has fined the BRSP for interrupting rail traffic in the past. Had we found anything substantial, the railroad would have to be notified, the tracks closed, and railroad workers present during the work. All of which would be a big deal on a busy rail line and likely would have caused a long scheduling delay in our opening. Fortunately, no large threatening rocks were found in the survey, but a large quantity of earth mixed with rocks was found still hanging over the SE flank and the areas we wanted to clear debris from. * Friday, June 16th / The BRCA's Pre-Opening Work Sessions have several pre-requisites: a) Adequate BRSP staff has to be available to close the trail and monitor the overall effort b) A WSP or WDFW biologist has to be on hand for a pre-work survey and to observe in case some event (plant or animal) occurs that would curtail the remaining work c) BRCA must have someone to monitor both the climbers trail and the railroad tracks at all times Unfortunately neither David nor Lisa were available on Friday to observe, and it turned out the weather was lousy as well, so a full work session wouldn't have been possible regardless. Instead, the ever-intrepid Jim Opdycke and myself tackled the main SE ridge rock fall site rapping down the slick ridge slabs on a wet fixed line left from the survey the day before. We established working anchors for Saturday's main effort and after rigging up a fairly elaborate aerial bucket line we spent six hours clearing the earth and rocks from the main rockfall working downwards from the top in two inch slices filling approximately twenty five 5-gallon buckets of material along with relocating numerous large rocks. This material was not dropped down the South face but rather lined down back away from the edge and deposited in a secure location and manner on the slope above the East face. This work would allow Saturday's main work session to proceed without the need to first clear this large hanging threat. * Saturday, June 17th / Finally getting after it! We assembled an able work team consisting of Ranger John Ernster, Jim Opdycke, Ivan, Bill Coe, Jason Frick, myself, and brothers Kyle and Jeff (?). Erik Plunkett, the Head Ranger, graciously agreed to cover John's normal busy Park duties to allow him to work with us. But unfortunately our non-climbing trail / track observer didn't materialize causing us great concern about one of our crew having to observe instead. But on starting up the tourist trail we spotted Beacon old-timer Gordon Melz and a friend on the NW face and Gordon agreed to grab a radio and head down to the tracks with John to do the observing. Gordon's serendipitous contribution just can't be overstated and his help went a long, long way towards making the day as successful as it was. We split into two teams on the rock with Jim Opdycke's team of Ivan, Kyle, and Jeff tackling clearing the "Land of the Little People" ledge and starting work on the decade of accumulated rock on the Grassy Ledges. Our team of myself, Bill, and Jason made our way back up and down to the site of the New Year's rock fall at the base of the SE corner ridge and rapped down to set up shop at the top of Young Warrior's p4. From there the three of us rapped and cleared the entire SE flank of both new and accumulataed rock hazards. After a couple of hours both teams met up on the Grassy Ledges and joined forces. Kyle and Jason took on the gnarly job of clearing both the SE Corner chimney above and the "blackberry rock jam" off below the Grassy Ledges while the rest of us focused on clearing and grooming the Grassy Ledges proper. Unfortunately, a piece of the very first significant rock we tossed took out one of the railroad warning wires which resulted in all trains slowing to a crawl as they passed Beacon and delaying our work which stopped as they passed under us. This was a bit of a bummer but we needed the breaks to pace ourselves and eventually a guy showed up coming down the tracks in one of those convertible pickup trucks to scope out the situation. Both John and Erik jumped into explain the trains were never in danger, that we had track observers, and that we were trying to make Beacon safer. The railroad seemed to take their explanation in stride but didn't have the tools or ladders to fix the wire. So John had BRSP tools brought down, Gordon got his harness to climb the poles and between Gordon, John, and the railroad man they got the job done so we and the trains could all get back to work. All in all the work went faster than we expected and we got all the rock we hope to deal with cleared by the end of the day. We encounter few problems but did run across a remarkable number of scorpions, some of the mature ones had gray/black bodies about 1/2" in diameter and 2.5-3 inches long. Everyone was pleased with the work, but also completely exhausted by the end of the day. Gabe was especially kind in volunteering to hump our very heavy haul bag out which was much appreciated. What got accomplished? Essentially the South face is now cleared of most all obvious and immediate rockfall threats of any significance. Does that mean Beacon Rock is now "safe"? Not by a long shot - it is much safer - but you have to be aware that objective dangers do exist out at Beacon and rockfall is still preeminent among them. Particularly walking roped across the Grassy Ledges you still need to be cognizant of every foot fall and your rope path. Jim Opdycke wants to remind everyone doing that traverse roped to not simply drag your rope on the ground but to try and drape it on the bushes and branches where possible to keep it off the loose rocks on the trail - even a small one could hurt someone and they are all aimed at the base of the SE Corner route and the often populous Snag Ledge. What else? Well, it's now safe to top out to the Grassy Ledges from Blownout and other climbs that top out on the Lower Grassy Ledges. The area around the top of Blownout has been well cleaned. This is a big improvement as a disasterous amount of loose rock barred all the ramps between the Upper and Lower Grassy Ledges. All-in-all it was an incredibly successful day, we all lived through it intact, and many thanks are due everyone who volunteered their time and energy to pull it all off, especially David Anderson and the entire BRSP staff. * Sunday, June 18th / In our exhaustion we left three fixed ropes and a number of temporary anchors from Saturday's work in place and we needed to do a final check of everything and retrieve our work gear. Fortunately Rick Harrell, Doug Ward, and Reed Fee came out to lend a hand and with a one pair heading up to Grassy Ledges and another up Young Warriors we were able to both retrieve the ropes (which were tied both at the top Grassy Ledges rap and the top of Young Warrior's p4) and do a last survey of everything. Note, there are now three pitons on the SE corner ridge that were placed for the work session - one at the top of the ridge below the trees that Jim Opdyke and us concur should stay as there are essentially no good anchors at this spot - and two at the top of Young Warriors p5 in the notch that will be removed as soon as we get enough energy back to do so. Also, John kindly stayed late and swapped out most of the signs and closure barrier for this morning's open. To top a great weekend off the Peregrines put in an appearance in what to me looked to be a parent teaching a fledge to enter and exit the strong ridge lift that developed above Beacon at day's end and they did about six loops between the top of Beacon and the strong thermal that develops above the Nature Preserve just to the East. It was the first [unconfirmed] sign the Peregrines were successful at fledging somewhere this year and that is great news. * Today, Monday, June 19th / All WDFW, WSP, and BRSP paperwork and approvals are final. Breanne finished the signage and phone machine message changeover and we're officially open! Again, Get out and get on it!!! And while you're out - please stop in at the BRSP ranger station, introduce yourself and thank them all for making this possible. Ditto if you run across a shady-looking WDFW wildlife biologist in a dark green extended cab pickup who is soon to become a climber as is Gabe from the BRSP staff. David Anderson and WDFW have been instrumental in making this evidence-based, early opening possible - our hats are off to him and many thanks are due him for all the extra time and effort he put in to making this possible. Lisa Lantz is also due a warm thank you for her continuing efforts at both protecting Beacon Rock's habitat and her generous and out-going efforts to help us with both this and last year's openings. Joseph Healy, Jim Opdycke, Bill Coe Beacon Rock Climbers' Association Beacon.Rock@AvaSys.com ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ NOTE (Edit): The cleanup is complete - please do not do any further trundling or tossing of rocks of any size at any time or place - someone was tossing way too close to Jim Opdycke on opening day! If you see any loose rocks of note please secure/stack them somewhere off to the side but again, please don't toss anything at this point - thanks. If you find anything amiss, missed, or needing attention please notify any of the BRSP staff and contact the BRCA at Beacon.Rock@AvaSys.com - enjoy. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Quote
billcoe Posted June 19, 2006 Posted June 19, 2006 I can't overstate enough that 90 percent plus of this early opening (as a minimum) is the result of Joesphs efforts alone to reach out to the folks in charge, organize and execute all this, and their good intentions to accept his input and ideas. My deepest and warmest gratitude goes out to all the rangers at Beacon who made us feel both welcome and appreciated. They are really amazing folks, and the more time I spend with them, the more I realize how skilled they are are what they do, the people of Washington and the parks are the benificiaries of their care and concern for that park. I think all of us climbers felt that way by the end of the day, and should the rangers need anything from me, any assistance at all, they have only to ask. Huge effort, major props, proud send, and thanks again Joseph! Quote
ivan Posted June 19, 2006 Posted June 19, 2006 thanks joe - and it all got done before the south side's too hot to climb on! Quote
Doug_Hutchinson Posted June 20, 2006 Posted June 20, 2006 Joseph and co - you all are amazing! Thanks for all the effort - that is one hella lot of work! Quote
ivan Posted June 20, 2006 Posted June 20, 2006 what a great saturday - i felt like charlie sheen in platoon w/ joe as sgt. barnes and jim as sgt. elias - or maybe in my own colonel-father's house - doing a job then havng the Old Man gander at it n' say "shit! what the hell is that crap? now listen..." can't wait to get that first solo-lap on da corner in.... Quote
billcoe Posted June 20, 2006 Posted June 20, 2006 what a great saturday - i felt like charlie sheen in platoon w/ joe as sgt. barnes and jim as sgt. elias - or maybe in my own colonel-father's house - doing a job then havng the Old Man gander at it n' say "shit! what the hell is that crap? now listen..." can't wait to get that first solo-lap on da corner in.... You mean: "Private Taylor, you missed that fu*ken rock right there asshooollle " Hmmm, Well, I thought there was harmony and peacefulness. Except for breaking the como line on the railroad...that sucked big. We had to stop doing anything. We in fact walked away from trundling the rocks on the Jill thrill extended ledge because of it. We grabbed the rocks by the belay area, stuffed them into a 5 gallon bucket and rapped with it though, so the belay area got cleaned. Quote
markd Posted June 20, 2006 Posted June 20, 2006 stewart and i had a nice run up beacon yesterday! cruisin>the corner>uprising! felt great to be climbing beacon in june. perfect temps. thanks again to joseph and all the others who have made this happen. it's a job well done and very much appreciated. see ya out there! Quote
Doug_Hutchinson Posted June 21, 2006 Posted June 21, 2006 can't wait to get that first solo-lap on da corner in.... My feelings exactly, so I went out tonight to get those laps in - felt great. It was cool to run into a lot of the regulars - Jim O doing Jill's Thrills, Mark (now in Bend) starting off, and Bill Coe on YW, among others. Question - the fee envelope boxes all say "No Fee" now - did the parking fee go away? Sorry - I did not read the entire thread. The place looks fantastic. The grassy/bushy sections of the SE corner are cleaner than I have ever seen them. Nice work again to everyone who was out last weekend, thanks! Quote
JosephH Posted June 21, 2006 Author Posted June 21, 2006 Glad to hear you enjoyed yourself. The work crew did do a great job and Governor Gregoire was kind enough to pitch in this year by axing the parking fees. Quote
billcoe Posted June 21, 2006 Posted June 21, 2006 Doug, good seeing you last night. watching you cruise up without a rope directly above us (climbing sans helmet directly below of course) made me feel that those previous efforts to toss rocks was well worth the time. We got in 4 pitches before it got late and it was pretty nice to be up there again. To everyone else, I mentioned this to Bryan (Powderhound) last night but should say it here as well. Don't assume all the rocks were removed just cause someone says so on the internet. Guys like Doug are plenty savey on stuff like that, but some of you all I don't know about. (Please - everybody don't take offense, I'm just laying it down for those who need to hear it). There's plenty still up there, it's just more manageable and signifigantly less dangerous now. 8 guys can't get close to getting them all off in a full day, no way. Although there is a shitload less now. Within a couple of weeks it should be fairly negligible. Very enjoyable for sure! Quote
JosephH Posted June 21, 2006 Author Posted June 21, 2006 Yes, to reiterate Bill's comment above, what the work crew removed were the most obvious and dangerous rockfall threats - Beacon Rock is still a "dangerous" place in terms of objective hazards compared to your average sport venue. Just by nature of the rock and the twin effects of melting ice loads and the constant vibration from rail traffic, Beacon is an "active" place relative to loose rock. Right now we have only one remaining area of concern that will likely be dealt on a day the BRSP closes the tourist trail for maintenance. We'll close the South face on the same day (probably a Monday or Tuesday) and wrap up the last of it. But, as Bill says, people can still get nailed if folks aren't careful about where and how they step or don't take care in managing the path of their rope wherever it touches the ground (or fail to drape on / clip to bushes and trees to keep it off the ground). Quote
billcoe Posted June 22, 2006 Posted June 22, 2006 Question - the fee envelope boxes all say "No Fee" now - did the parking fee go away? Sorry - I did not read the entire thread. Sorry, didn't see this: short version. No fee. Gov made fee go away. I saw Park folks John and Gabe Tue, and to reiterate what Joseph said, they were talking that there were some big assed loose rocks somewhere in the trail vicinity (I think) . They sounded like they were going to close the whole thing, including the hiking trail, for a day. If anyone wants to put in some time to assist, I'll bet they could use it. Ask JH, he's the unpaid organizer for out there. Quote
billcoe Posted June 24, 2006 Posted June 24, 2006 98 percent certain I was stung last Saturday out at Beacon by a Scorpion, twice, on my left hand. Hardly have ever seen them in my whole life if you exclude the one my brother kept alive in the house as a pet when I was a kid. It never stung anyone either and sometimes he'd let it walk on his hand. Very interesting thing.....Still hurts in both places from infection 6 days later. I never did see the scorpion, if thats what it was, and didn't even think of it till later. One hand on the brake rope on rappel, the other reaching to sweep a (some) loose rock. Bam, pulled my left hand back expecting to be pulling out a bee-stinger with my teeth. But no stinger. I looked at the finger and saw nothing. Figured I'd hit a bramble of some kind. Reach out to the same place and wham, get poked on the left side of my palm. (insert obligatory Homer Simpson "DOHHS" here) The finger actually formed a blister, and both spots burned and hurt all day. Very similar to a more painful bee sting, except that it endured much longer. No blood anywhere, couldn't see the hole then either. You can see 2 scabbed areas now, approx .093 across, and red with a little infection. Sunday, I don't know if from this, or the fact that we worked our asses off Saturday (and I'm old and out of shape at 51), or that I had a cold, but I slept in Sunday (It's very rare for me to do that), and took a 3 hour nap, and felt lethargic all day anyway. I had been planning on getting out until I tried to roll out of bed that morning and was too tired. Anywhooo, thought I'd share. I find it interesting, if it bore's you just go back to reading spray on bombing N Korea or attend to your regularly scheduled newscast. Quote
JosephH Posted June 26, 2006 Author Posted June 26, 2006 Hmmm, I was stung by something as well on the knee but never saw it. I kept pulling on my pants over the rest of the day as I kept feeling a needle-like, almost electric sharp prick but nothing was there. Sunday I felt out of sorts as well but chalked it up to being out of shape for as much work as we did on Saturday - no telling. Quote
JosephH Posted June 26, 2006 Author Posted June 26, 2006 ================================================= Beacon Rock Update - 6/25/06 ================================================= Photos from 2006 Pre-Opening Work Session Just a couple of shots to show what some of the fuss was about. Here is a shot of where the rock fall occured on the SE corner ridge. You can see this view from 14 when approaching Beacon from the East: Here's a couple of closer before and after shots of the remnants which were poised over the SE Corner route (along with much other shattered fragments below and a decades worth of loose rock on Grassy Ledges). It was cleaned up the day before the bigger Pre-Opening Work Session in order that it not slow down the larger crew: And a great shot of the BRCA's Chairman Emeritus Jim Opdycke climbing the SE ridge ramp after the deed was done: And one of Lisa Lantz, the WSP Southwest Resource Steward who was kind enough to come down and give a big thumbs up for the cleanup and early open, and Erik Plunkett, the BRSP Head Ranger who (along with John Ernster, Breanne Jordan, and Gabe Bailey) was also totally supportive of the opening. Oh, and Jim Opdycke also wanted me to be sure and once again ask that folks going out please take 5 or 10 minutes to pick a small section of the base trail and clean it up so it doesn't look like such a war zone - it would be much appreciated and would definitely contribute to continued good relations with the BRSP staff. Thanks and look forward to seeing folks out there... Joseph Healy, Jim Opdycke, Bill Coe Beacon Rock Climbers' Association Beacon.Rock@AvaSys.com Quote
markd Posted June 26, 2006 Posted June 26, 2006 i wouldn't have ever guessed at seeing a pic of "the mayor" of beacon on cc.com! two thumbs up for jim o - representing with the 20 year old harness and eb's! Quote
ivan Posted June 26, 2006 Posted June 26, 2006 so is jim ensuring that block stays in place by standing on it? Quote
markd Posted June 26, 2006 Posted June 26, 2006 i know your old school joseph, but that hex is looking a little suspect! Quote
billcoe Posted June 26, 2006 Posted June 26, 2006 I was up there the following day and we fixed a rope and rapped on that hex. Quote
markd Posted June 26, 2006 Posted June 26, 2006 you're a brave man bill. you are a master of the choss! why would you be rapping off that, though? Quote
JosephH Posted June 26, 2006 Author Posted June 26, 2006 Nah, it was bomb and used as opposition - those blocks on the right were locked down keyed in place. If you don't like that you'd hate what I anchored the fixed line with to rap down to that spot the day before during the initial survey of the rockfall site. David Andersen of the WFDW was kind enough to let us do this second survey after one of the Peregrine scrape so we could check if there was anything up there big enough to warrant the BRSP contacting the railroad to close the track while we trundled (thank god there wasn't or we probably wouldn't be open yet)... Quote
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