rock-ice Posted March 16, 2005 Posted March 16, 2005 How does everyone like the new (2002) Frenchman Coulee: A Rock Climber's Guide? Are there any other resources, this is the only guide I know of for the area? Is it worth $26 @ rei? Thanks. Quote
catbirdseat Posted March 16, 2005 Posted March 16, 2005 Sure. I like it. It's a good book. My only complaint is that it doesn't use a consistent ordering of routes. Sometimes it is left to right and other times it is right to left. Right to left requires that you flip a bunch of pages whenever you move from one named area to another. Quote
matt_warfield Posted March 16, 2005 Posted March 16, 2005 All of the older guides are hopelessly out of date and I am not aware of any select guides that cover it. It's a good book and worth the money. Quote
Kitergal Posted March 17, 2005 Posted March 17, 2005 you can pick it up cheaper at mt. high sports in Ellensburg on your way over!! I think I got mine for $19.95 there! Quote
gosolo Posted March 17, 2005 Posted March 17, 2005 I like it....A lot more personality than another Falcon Guide....But I have only been to the place twice. Quote
Rocks Posted March 19, 2005 Posted March 19, 2005 Routes are shown from the direction you approach the wall that is why some are from the left and some are from the right. Quote
catbirdseat Posted March 21, 2005 Posted March 21, 2005 Routes are shown from the direction you approach the wall that is why some are from the left and some are from the right. Whatever. Many can be approached from either side. Consistency is the most important thing in my humble opinion. Quote
gyselinck Posted March 21, 2005 Posted March 21, 2005 How come I can climb Red M&M (supposed 5.12a, according to the guide book) and lead most traditional 5.11 climbs at Vantage, but I cant climb like 10d and up in L-worth...top roped...Hmmmm... Whatever the guide book says, bump the grade down at least 2 letters. For example, 5.11 climbs are really 10b climbs. Quote
Rocks Posted March 21, 2005 Posted March 21, 2005 gyselinck Red M&M is 5.12a if you led it, because you have to put in your own gear like, H.B an R.P. hard to places to. But if you top rope it, like most people do it,5.11...... Quote
gyselinck Posted March 21, 2005 Posted March 21, 2005 I have lead almost every traditional route on Sunshine Wall, with the exception of Red M&M, and a few others. Back when I carred about hard shit (like 2 months ago), my goal was to lead Red M&M. It is not hard to place pro in. It just takes small shit which freaks most people out. For some reason people would rather fall on a black diamond number 5 camalot, then a number 1 wired nut. Seriously though, back when I was interested in doing it, I saw this old guy lead it and he put pro in about every three feet. The crack is there! And Red was just one example, I can lead most every 11 there without to much problem...(Stems and Seeds, Shrinking Ball Disease, Bob's Your Uncle, etc) which means they are not 11's. I cant lead 11's anywhere else... Quote
catbirdseat Posted March 21, 2005 Posted March 21, 2005 One reason why ratings may seem soft at Vantage is that so many climbs feature stemming moves, which for some people, especially tall people, make the climbs easier. In other words, the ratings at Vantage are more subjective than at Leavenworth. The other thing is that many climbs are rated assuming that they are led in a certain way, for example, an adjacent crack might be off limits because it would make a given climb a lot easier if you use it. Yoder's guide usually tells you what the bounds are, but not always. Quote
Rocks Posted March 22, 2005 Posted March 22, 2005 Another thing to consider at Vantage is the rock tends to dinner plate in the cracks. This can give some climbers options from just jamming by allowing an occasional face climbing move. In Leavenworth you really need to jam - hands and feet in the crack as edges are pretty rare in the cracks and on the face. As for the ratings, here is an example. R.O.T.C. in Leavenworth is 5.11C and it is an easier lead then Red M&M's in my opinion after leading both. Also, Kramer upgraded Easter Overhang from 10A to 10C in his last edition and I still think its 10A. But its wide, and some climbers don't like wide cracks. Quote
MCash Posted March 22, 2005 Posted March 22, 2005 I don't lead 11C or 12A trad, but I thought Cocaine Crack was quite a bit easier than George and Martha's (both rated 5.10A). However, the bottom 20 feet of Angel Crack feels far harder than either of them. Quote
andyf Posted March 22, 2005 Posted March 22, 2005 I've only toproped Red M&Ms, not led it, but I got on it a number of times in the late 80s/early 90s. Each time I continued straight up the left-hand seam at the crux, rather than moving right where you now see a bunch of chalk off on the right-hand arete. (There was no chalk on the arete back then. Of course, there was no chalk ANYWHERE at Vantage back then.) I don't know if this is harder than moving right, but it always seemed .12a to me. Quote
slaphappy Posted March 22, 2005 Posted March 22, 2005 I don't lead 11C or 12A trad, but I thought Cocaine Crack was quite a bit easier than George and Martha's (both rated 5.10A). However, the bottom 20 feet of Angel Crack feels far harder than either of them. Dude tighten up, that's nuts. G&M is far easier. I'm not gonna dispute a half a grade here or there but cocaine crack simply taint easier than G&M, no how . What about Pony Keg -vs- Celestial Groove (5.9) or Air Guitar -vs- Crack of Doom (10a) or Bob's your Uncle -vs- Pumpline (11a) or the Nose at (10d) for that matter? I be thinkin little man "gyeslinck" be right... Quote
MCash Posted March 22, 2005 Posted March 22, 2005 I'm sure you're right. I was just giving one example of how it felt for me, for arguments sake. Many of the basalt cracks like Sex Party, Tangled Up In Blue, and Air Guitar are easy for the grade. Quote
gyselinck Posted March 22, 2005 Posted March 22, 2005 Bob's your Uncle -vs- Pumpline (11a) or the Nose at (10d) for that matter? I be thinkin little man "gyeslinck" be right... I tried pumpline the other day, I got to the half way point where I bailed. My other two partners "aided" to the top. If pumpline were at Vantage it would be like a 5.12+. Many of the basalt cracks like Sex Party, Tangled Up In Blue, and Air Guitar are easy for the grade. Sex Party (5.10), but actually 5.9 Air Guitarist (5.10), actually 5.9- Tangle up in Blue (5.9), actually 5.8 Quote
catbirdseat Posted March 22, 2005 Posted March 22, 2005 (edited) "Sex Party (5.10), but actually 5.9" agree "Air Guitarist (5.10), actually 5.9-" agree "Tangle up in Blue (5.9), actually 5.8" disagree Which is harder, "Pony Keg, or Celesial Groove, 5.9?" Definitely Celestial Groove. I think Celestial Groove should be 5.10a/b, just because of the start, then it settles down to 5.9. Pony Keg is quite straight forward. Edited March 22, 2005 by catbirdseat Quote
Rocks Posted March 23, 2005 Posted March 23, 2005 Bob's Your Uncle has about ten feet of hard climbing near the top where the crack gets narrow. The rest of the climb is about 5.9 maybe some 5.10A. Remember routes are rated on the hardest move of the climb - its called the Yosemite rating system. I've lead Pumpline and it is so short how do you compare it to Red M&Ms? Pumpline is an easier lead than Red M&Ms. And Andy is correct it is harder to stay in the seam on Red M&Ms, but it is still hard even when you go to the right. Most people who TR go to the right, that's what all the chalk is about. Gyselinck head to the Valley (you know the Big Ditch, aka Yosemight) and lead Vanishing Point - you may become a 5.11C climber! The climb is 165 feet long all 5.7 with one wicked move up high. If a guide book gets you within one step of your opinion of the grade its doing good. As you can tell from above its very subjective. Climbing at lots of different areas will give you a good feel for ratings. I think areas that were pioneered by Jeff Thomas, New York climber who moved here in the 70s, have the hardest climbing for the rating. These areas are Smith Rocks and Beacon. Go climb Blown Out, Free for Some, Second Wind, Stepping Wolf, awesome climbs all at Beacon (but its closed now for birds nesting), continous hard climbing, rating is generally on, but never ever over rated. Good discussion. Quote
Figger_Eight Posted March 24, 2005 Posted March 24, 2005 Is it worth $26 @ rei? No, but it's worth $26 at your local climbing shop Quote
russman Posted March 25, 2005 Posted March 25, 2005 (edited) No, but it's worth $26 at your local climbing shop I would agree with that....the thing I totally love with this book is the Spiral bound side....much better than a regual bound book...at least the small pebbles and dirt dont' stay in this one like they still are in my old one Edited March 25, 2005 by russman Quote
gosolo Posted March 29, 2005 Posted March 29, 2005 as far as ratings....I doubt that the guide has been written that everyone agreed to the grades...That wirebound deal is much better than bound. Quote
Alex Posted March 30, 2005 Posted March 30, 2005 if you are leading 10d at leavenworth, you're doing just fine time for you to go climb hyperspace Quote
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