Breakaway topic: An Ironic and Fearful Abortion

[cracked]

I think people who want to take a woman's right to choose away from her are stupid. Could we possibly get any closer to becoming Nazis?

Do you realize how near-birth abortions are performed? The doctor pulls the baby halfway out of the vagina, then literally stabs the baby (and yes, it is a baby, they are at the same level of development as when I was born, a month early) in the head with a pair of scissors. He then cuts the baby into little chunks and throws it away. That is inhumane beyond belief, to me at least. I feel revulsion when I think of this procedure. I support abortion as long as the abortion is reasonably early in the pregnancy. If it's too late, put the poor thing up for adoption.

 

What? You don't believe me? Check this out if you feel the need to puke: late term abortion pics. Tell me that isn't murder.

 

Here is a less graphic page, that I still find repulsive.

 

Your opinion is so distorted and simplified that I have a very hard time imagining you as an intelligent individual.

 

I was going to go through your post and refute each point, but it's of no use. You refuse to acknowlege that your opponents have a point. I have my opinions but I can see how others can have differing ones. It doesn't imply that they are dumb.

Edited November 6, 2004 by snoboy

[ashw_justin]

I think people who want to take a woman's right to choose away from her are stupid. Could we possibly get any closer to becoming Nazis?

Do you realize how near-birth abortions are performed? The doctor pulls the baby halfway out of the vagina, then literally stabs the baby (and yes, it is a baby, they are at the same level of development as when I was born, a month early) in the head with a pair of scissors. He then cuts the baby into little chunks and throws it away. That is inhumane beyond belief, to me at least. I feel revulsion when I think of this procedure. I support abortion as long as the abortion is reasonably early in the pregnancy. If it's too late, put the poor thing up for adoption.

 

What? You don't believe me? Check this out if you feel the need to puke: late term abortion pics. Tell me that isn't murder.

 

Here is a less graphic page, that I still find repulsive.

 

Your opinion is so distorted and simplified that I have a very hard time imagining you as an intelligent individual.

 

I was going to go through your post and refute each point, but it's of no use. You refuse to acknowlege that your opponents have a point. I have my opinions but I can see how others can have differing ones. It doesn't imply that they are dumb.

 

Womens' right to chose does not== stabbing 8-month old fetuses. Unless you are just pretending not to know this, there is already a ban.

 

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/11/20031105-1.html

 

It would be nice to live in a perfect world where there are zero necessary evils. Abortion doesn't put a smile on anyone's face. Unwanted, unintended pregnancy is a problem facing civilized nations.

 

A year-and-a-half ago there was a big news story in Cuba about a 13-year-old girl who was raped and became pregnant. Now, she was prevented from having any kind of abortion, because people in the gov't were so interested in being religious fundamentalists that they were willing to ruin the life of an innocent 13-year-old girl (provided she could even survive giving birth). They also prevented her from leaving the country. Another innocent victimized, not only by her attacker, but also by her government. Problem NOT solved.

 

In any case, I'd rather hear some intelligence on this matter than some horrific propaganda.

[cj001f]

That is inhumane beyond belief, to me at least. I feel revulsion when I think of this procedure. I support abortion as long as the abortion is reasonably early in the pregnancy. If it's too late, put the poor thing up for adoption.

In 2000 there were 2,200 partial birth abortions performed in America. 0.17% of abortions performed. Simplified and Distorted?

[scott_harpell]

hey justin. What percentage of abortions are rape related? What percentage are threatening to the mother. I am all for these types of medical procedures but when it is done for the mother's convenience (and tha tis really what it is) I think it is just crap. Cuba is a ridiculous dictatorship. Believe me, I have spent a lot of time there. Not i nth resorts either. I did religious/ humanitarian work there and also filmed a doc there. I was also there to hear Castro speak on 'anti-American day.' Apples and Oranges my friend.

[scott_harpell]

That is inhumane beyond belief, to me at least. I feel revulsion when I think of this procedure. I support abortion as long as the abortion is reasonably early in the pregnancy. If it's too late, put the poor thing up for adoption.

In 2000 there were 2,200 partial birth abortions performed in America. 0.17% of abortions performed. Simplified and Distorted?

 

Bush has already banned this horrible type of abortion.

[ashw_justin]

hey justin. What percentage of abortions are rape related? What percentage are threatening to the mother. I am all for these types of medical procedures but when it is done for the mother's convenience (and tha tis really what it is) I think it is just crap. Cuba is a ridiculous dictatorship. Believe me, I have spent a lot of time there. Not i nth resorts either. I did religious/ humanitarian work there and also filmed a doc there. I was also there to hear Castro speak on 'anti-American day.' Apples and Oranges my friend.

 

Yes yes, but my point is let's keep it apples and oranges.

[cj001f]

Bush has already banned this horrible type of abortion.

But the abortion camp still trucks out those photos (I passed demonstrators Tues in NW PDX with similar pics on sticks)

 

To restrict abortions, without overturning Roe v. Wade (which established the Fed government had no business governing reproduction, a precedent I like), you need a clear moment to define the fetus as a person. As another thread showed, there is no clear concensus on that.

[scott_harpell]

actually, I posted the medical definition of a fetus. I would think this would be the standard definition of a fetus.

[jordop]

.

Edited June 7, 2021 by jordop

[cj001f]

actually, I posted the medical definition of a fetus. I would think this would be the standard definition of a fetus.

This?

 

fe·tus

n. pl. fe·tus·es

2. In humans, the unborn young from the end of the eighth week after conception to the moment of birth, as distinguished from the earlier embryo.

 

isn't what you said:

I would say that as soon as it attaches to the uterus. This would allow for the morning after pill. I know I take a position most would not but that's just where I am at. I think that this means that we can take responsibility for our actions and if "hey! shit! we just had unprotected sex!" we can do the responsible thing and take care of it rather than just saying, " oh hell if i get prego i can just get an abortion." I doubt many hold my position but i support it.

[scott_harpell]

by the way: There is only one not chemical abortion technique that can be used before the 8th week.

 

Manual Aspiration

[ashw_justin]

We have to keep in mind that very few women who get pregnant were planning on getting pregnant. And let's not forget that some asshole had to donate the sperm, so it's just as much his fault as hers, only she's way more fucked because she's gotta deal with the baby. Now I'm sure a lot of male tunes would change if they were the one's having to carry another fuckin' human being around in them for 9 months, but that's beside the point. This is a huge caveat in the quest for equality in this country. How can we deal with unexpected female pregnancies as a society? Can we do it in a civilized manner, without violating anyone's rights? What are you prepared to offer a woman, if you force her to be negatively unequal in society? How are you going to solve this without treating your fellow human beings like animals?

[scott_harpell]

1) adoption.

 

2) Get dead-beat dads by the balls.

 

3) Shit-can anti-birth control legislation.

[Dru]

I support retroactive abortion. Who wants some

[scott_harpell]

all abortion is 'retro-active.'

[Dave_Schuldt]

Calling those who voted for GW stupid will give them psychological as well as a propaganda boost.

[scott_harpell]

A voice of reason from Mr. Schuldt.

[Dru]

I am in favour of the retroactive abortion of Osama bin Laden, George Bush, Yasser Arafat, Alexander Lukashenka, Ne Win, Ali Khameini and other corrupt politicians

[David_Parker]

Dear moderator: Please move abortion issues to it's own thread. That subject alone should fill pages. This was not supposed to be an abortion thread.

[willstrickland]

Re: Partial Birth Abortion

 

The procedure itself is gruesome. However, one of the common reasons it is used is when the fetus has hydrocephalus. This is a condition where there is enormous swelling of the fetus's head, up to 19 inches in diameter (a typical adult head is only 7-8 inches in diameter).

 

Estimates put the occurence rate at about 5000 cases per year in the US. The condition is not typically detected until late in the 2nd trimester. A fetus with this condition is alive, but it will not live long after birth as it is not able to achieve consiousness.

 

So there are essentially 3 choices in this scenario:

 

1. Attempt a vaginal delivery in which case the fetus will die and the mother is in serious danger of death or permanent physical damage.

 

2. Deliver the fetus by a type of C-section, where it will die shortly after delivery. C-sections, although performed regularly, are a serious operation with their own inherent dangers to the mother.

 

3. Partial birth abortion. The cervix is dilated, the fetus partially withdrawn feet first, an instrument inserted into the fetus's skull and the brain/cs fluid suctioned out collapsing the skull where it can be withdrawn.

 

For these exteme cases of a hydrocephalic fetus, all three options involve the fetus dying. Two of them involve serious risk to the mother. The best option seems to be the partial birth abortion procedure.

 

I can understand wanting to ban this procedure in cases where the fetus is healthy and it is being used essentially as birth control. I cannot understand banning it outright, because I hope I've shown above, there is a legitimate use for the procedure.

[scott_harpell]

Word Will I totally agree. As I stated before, I have no qualms about exceptions but this procedure was being used on normal fetuses. I think it is sad that both sides are lobying so much that they are not willing to concede points like this.

[Mal_Con]

Proof? I have neve heard of this procedure use on a regular basis or least of all for population control. I would change my opinion if it was.

[cj001f]

Word Will I totally agree. As I stated before, I have no qualms about exceptions but this procedure was being used on normal fetuses.

Scott. 2,200 a year. that's less than the number of civilians who have died in Iraq this year

[Camilo]

I am all for these types of medical procedures but when it is done for the mother's convenience (and tha tis really what it is) I think it is just crap.

From what I know of abortions, they're hardly convenient. They are often an action taken against a mistake made, but not "convenient". On another note, you're a rugger right Scott? You must know the filthy abortion clinic verse to "S&M Man". I could never quote it because I'd get insta-banned .

[foraker]

I find it an interesting phenomenon that most of the time I read some back and forth rants about abortion, it's always between a bunch of men.....