jmace Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 Back country dog is right, it may be a rare occurence but it only needs to happen once, its pretty easy to replicate try it on a bolt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Crash Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 I can't believe no one has brought up the subject of Dog-Bone draws yet. Â I can't believe no one has picked on my spooning or embracing hijack yet. Â drC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 This is why everyone should climb with chains of locking steel links instead of draws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 "STFU and climb your 60 meters" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 You stfu. Did you not see my skirt of quicklinks? All your base, bitch. Â PS: Be sure to carry a depleted uranium umbrella on all sport climbs. Never know when that meteorite might have your name! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chucK Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 "The leader must not fall" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 "if you aren't falling you aren't trying" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 "but if you're having fun, well, you're a damn good climber." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken4ord Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 Back country dog is right, it may be a rare occurence but it only needs to happen once, its pretty easy to replicate try it on a bolt. Â It is easy to replicate the gate opening by hanging on the draw and moving the draw by hand. It is extremely difficult to get the gate to open with rope tension. It is next to impossible to get the biner to unclip from the bolt with the rope tension. Â The two draw idea is dumb. The top draw biner get cross loaded, levered across the bottom biner, it looks like a good way of ruining your biners. Â Iann's got a real good point we should really practice safe climbing, locking biners on both ends of the draw or quick link. Where quick links have not had an offical study done in climbing application, I think we will all be safer with locking biners. Wait, I was just thinking climbing can be dangerous, stay home so that you do not risk injury. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnowByrd Posted November 2, 2004 Author Share Posted November 2, 2004 I think most of us agree that the gate of the lower biner should face away from the direction of the climber's travel, i.e., if I am ascending up and left, the gate of the lower biner should face to the right. The worry I have is when I must traverse first one way and then the other in difficult terrain before making the next clip, thus not knowing for sure on which side of the lower biner I might fall. The other consideration is the top biner unclipping from the hanger as illustrated on the Climerware website. Most of the time this is not a big deal, and on most routes I don't give my clips a second thought after I decide which way to orient them.  But most of us have been in situations where the rope must stay clipped or the results would be grim. My solution to this is to simply use two quickdraws, gates opposed. On the hanger end one carabiner points left and one to the right. Ditto for the rope end biners. I have seen no data to indicate this is a dangerous practice. The one concern I have would be extra stresses to the hanger-end biners, but they seem to nest pretty well.  Anyway, that's my $.02  I'm a total paranoid when it comes to the hangar...I know I'll get made fun of for this but being a newbie, I'm still learning...so I'll sure I'll lighten up (literally) with experience....for the hangers, opposing is automatic....in addition, I replace the hangar end of one draw with a locking biner that fits thru the anchor and I also replace the rope end with a locker as well. So they both oppose, and I've got lockers thru the anchor as well as for the rope.  2 draws for the hangers...one for each clip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 You know, there is this amazing new invention for those of you who are scared of your draw unclipping from a bolt, and who can't decide which way the biners on the draw should face. It is called a TOP ROPE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 I'm a total paranoid when it comes to the hangar...I know I'll get made fun of for this but being a newbie, I'm still learning...so I'll sure I'll lighten up (literally) with experience....for the hangers, opposing is automatic....in addition, I replace the hangar end of one draw with a locking biner that fits thru the anchor and I also replace the rope end with a locker as well. So they both oppose, and I've got lockers thru the anchor as well as for the rope. 2 draws for the hangers...one for each clip.  At the risk of being the receiving end of a phenomenal troll, are you serious? Consider the millions of climbs done every day out there on quickdraws... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
selkirk Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 I may also be paranoid but I do the same thing when i'm setting up a toprope, and am expecting a reasonable amount of traffic on it.... I figure I bought the damn things, I might as well put them to good use Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 Well at the top of a sport climb I'll usually throw on a couple lockers and slings (though I think opposed draws are just fine at the top, they're always weighted), but the above post reads like someone taught the poster above to put locking biners on draws and use those on the pitch, and even use multiple draws on a bolt hanger, opposed. If true, this is insanity, in my humble opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 "In bouldering, every fall is a groundfall" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Crash Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 I think SnowByrd in her last post is actually talking about the *top anchors* not the hangers on the route. And she's also talking about the way she sets top ropes. At least that's what it looks like. Â drC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
selkirk Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 ....in addition, I replace the hangar end of one draw with a locking biner that fits thru the anchor and I also replace the rope end with a locker as well. So they both oppose, and I've got lockers thru the anchor as well as for the rope. 2 draws for the hangers...one for each clip.   ummmm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 1) So the other bolts on the route are not anchors? Anyway, it wasn't clear to me. Â 2) On a toprope sport anchor the whole discussion of same side or opposing biners on lead is moot. Since leading above draws is what the topic was about, I assumed this was in reference to leading above draws. Â 3) Seriously, you don't expect me to read that much text thoroughly... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnowByrd Posted November 2, 2004 Author Share Posted November 2, 2004 1) So the other bolts on the route are not anchors? Anyway, it wasn't clear to me. 2) On a toprope sport anchor the whole discussion of same side or opposing biners on lead is moot. Since leading above draws is what the topic was about, I assumed this was in reference to leading above draws.  3) Seriously, you don't expect me to read that much text thoroughly...  The original question was referring to the bolts you clip into while on lead....NOT the anchors at the top. But then the discussion drifted to the top anchors. So let me clarify....I use opposing locking biners at the TOP when I set up my anchors through the chains (one for the rope and one through the anchor), or bolts at the top....I do NOT use multiple or locking anything when clipping into the bolts leading UP to the anchors. Make sense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 hey snowbyrd...seriously, don't sweat the qd deal...just clip and go...if you need to fret something, fret backclipping...otherwise, its pretty damn safe and low percentage that it'll come unclipped (if you are that concerned about it, then you shouldn't be climbing)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 Yes I'm sorry, I stand corrected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnowByrd Posted November 2, 2004 Author Share Posted November 2, 2004 hey snowbyrd...seriously, don't sweat the qd deal...just clip and go...if you need to fret something, fret backclipping...otherwise, its pretty damn safe and low percentage that it'll come unclipped (if you are that concerned about it, then you shouldn't be climbing)...  I made the mistake of back clipping and had to downclimb and reverse it. Won't do that again... I'm not worried at all actually...I just wanted to poll people and find out what they thought. Its sort of a 'mounties' versus everyone else discussion actually, because my climbing partners are mainly mounties. I didn't want to nor do I now want to bring in the mounties vs non mounties way of doing things now (thats for spray) but I thought it was a good topic for discussion. I should have been clearer when I originally posted the question.  No sweat iain...you've contributed to this discussion and I appreciate it. As we both know, threads wander...and I contribute often to the wandering  I love to climb and I know its dangerous...I just prefer to do it safely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 hey snow... Â another thing, sometimes idiosyncricities(spelling) of the way you do something are important to how you'll do on the pitch if you are at your limit...ie, i've got a buddy of mine who has to pull his knot tight with his teeth...he says it guarantees to himself that the knot is tied...if something that someone showed you (like the mountie way) feels "right" then don't sweat it...there are many many ways to skin a cat... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpine_Tom Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 I'm mostly concerned with "Do my draws match my harness?" Now, wait. Are they supposed to match your harness, your shoes, or your lycra? Have I been doing it wrong all along? No WONDER I can't climb 5.11!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 back on track, what if you are using a "trad draw" ie shoulder sling, tripled up, instead of a sewn quickdraw. where the biner is free to move around. which way should they face then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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