Rap ring substitutes

[sobo]

OK, so I'm getting ready to head out for my week-long season closer. I'll be heading over to Idaho for some granitic bliss, to an area that doesn't see a lot of traffic. Seems like I always need to replace some rap slings and anchors when I go there, and I was wondering...

 

Instead of bringing a bunch of ($fancy$) rap rings, is there a legit substitute for same? Simple chain links from the hardware store? Quick-links? Anything else that would be acceptable to the climbing community at large that runs on the cheap side? What sizes are most acceptable (diameter of the link, not the hole for the rope, silly)? And yes, I will be bringing "camoflauge" webbing.

[Dru]

quicklinks may be cheaper, but rap rings weight 1/4 as much

[Jake_Gano]

Where abouts in ID-ho?

[sobo]

Dru: Weight won't be an issue. Money is.

 

Jake: Lightning Dome. Anyone from WSU or U of I will know where it is. You should, judging by your "Loc".

[Jake_Gano]

LDome and area is sweet. John Crock from hyperspud here in Moscos had clued me in to some pretty amazing potential across the road. I might be down in that area in the next weekend or two. Be sure to post some pictures when you get back, have fun.

[cluck]

Ahh...Lightning dome - that place is sweet. It holds a special place in my heart cuz it's the first multipitch climbing I ever did. Of course, our routefinding was atrocious and after much flailing we retreated via several ackward double-rope rappels.

 

Enjoy!

[Dru]

But isn't the money diff between a rap ring ($2 CDN at MEC) and a non-stainless quick link (about $1.25 CDN at hardware store) kind of small potatoes unless you are retrofitting a whole crags worth of hundreds of rap stations?

[Blake]

A chain link would do it. Don't know the breakign strength, but i'd trust it to hold me on rap, or on a fall.

[sobo]

But isn't the money diff between a rap ring ($2 CDN at MEC) and a non-stainless quick link (about $1.25 CDN at hardware store) kind of small potatoes unless you are retrofitting a whole crags worth of hundreds of rap stations?

 

Well, Dru, I'm looking at it this way...

 

It's a multipitch area, with an average of say... 3 to 5 pitches per climb. Let's go low and say it's 3 pitches for every climb we do. I'll probably get in 4 or 5 climbs a day, cuz I'm fat and I'm taking a buddy who's never done multis before. So on the low end, that's around 12 rap stations per day if all goes according to plan.

 

We'll be there for about 4 or 5 days. Let's say we get bored after 4 days. That makes for somewhere around 50 rap stations to be replaced while we're there. With two rap rings (redundancy) per station, that's around 100 rings.

 

At your estimated prices, there's a differential of about $0.75CAN/ring. So that's 100 rings * $0.75CAN/ring * ~$0.70US/$1.00CAN = $50US potential price difference. To me, that is some serious coin of my own that I'll be dropping. As I said above, "Weight won't be an issue. Money is."

 

Thanks for your comment, though.

[sobo]

Jake: You must be referring to Huddleston's Bluff, about a mile upstream and across the river. Yes, that's quite impressive. Or are you referring to The Dorsal Fin, that "shark fin" lookin'-thingie directly across the river from LD? Just so you know, John also has a Hyperspud here in The Palm Spirngs of Washington. He's been here for about 4 years or so now. Class act that guy.

 

cluck: I can make you a copy of my topo. That should keep you out of trouble, eh?

[sobo]

A chain link would do it. Don't know the breakign strength, but i'd trust it to hold me on rap, or on a fall.

 

Blake: Would you go with just one of those as opposed to two rap rings? I've always doubled up rap rings, cuz that was how i was taught years ago, and they just look a little too dicey to me to go single with them. It would seem to me that a single chain link would be fine, but what about single quick-links? Any difference there?

[EWolfe]

AsBlake said, chain links will be the cheapest.

 

Finding a hardware store that will cut you a series of two-link 5/16 or 3/8 (better) chain pieces may be the crux

[sobo]

Thanks E, that's some info I needed to know was what is the best size. And I hadn't even thought about the need to do this as two-links!! But after I read it, it immediately made sense. Thanks.

 

PS: I've got a friend in the hardware store biz here in town. He'll take the time (or get one his people to do it).

 

Thanks to all who responded. If I can figger out how to post pics, I'll set up a Distel-style slide show when I get back.

[EWolfe]

Now that I think about it, three links would be better, as twoo would load the rope perpendicular to the wall - three links, parallel

 

Good luck, and good work

 

E

[backcountrydog]

if going w chain or quicklink i think 3/8 is the standard to go with(strength/thickness). the working load for run of the mill hardware 3/8 quick-links is 1980 lbs. 3/8 chain is less. not sure where u live, but tacoma screw lets you cut whtvr length of chain you need, their quicklinks are kinda expensive.

[sobo]

...three links would be better, as twoo would load the rope perpendicular to the wall...

 

E: Good point; right again. Way easier to pull the rope with a three-link arrangement.

 

bcd: I live in The Palm Springs of Washington, Crackima, Yakivegas, ...take your pick; it all sucks.

[Dru]

But isn't the money diff between a rap ring ($2 CDN at MEC) and a non-stainless quick link (about $1.25 CDN at hardware store) kind of small potatoes unless you are retrofitting a whole crags worth of hundreds of rap stations?

 

Well, Dru, I'm looking at it this way...

 

It's a multipitch area, with an average of say... 3 to 5 pitches per climb. Let's go low and say it's 3 pitches for every climb we do. I'll probably get in 4 or 5 climbs a day, cuz I'm fat and I'm taking a buddy who's never done multis before. So on the low end, that's around 12 rap stations per day if all goes according to plan.

 

We'll be there for about 4 or 5 days. Let's say we get bored after 4 days. That makes for somewhere around 50 rap stations to be replaced while we're there. With two rap rings (redundancy) per station, that's around 100 rings.

 

At your estimated prices, there's a differential of about $0.75CAN/ring. So that's 100 rings * $0.75CAN/ring * ~$0.70US/$1.00CAN = $50US potential price difference. To me, that is some serious coin of my own that I'll be dropping. As I said above, "Weight won't be an issue. Money is."

 

Thanks for your comment, though.

 

4 3 pitch routes a day? At this time of year? Are you fast and slumming, or slow and optimistic?

 

Anyways I like it when people use double rings or quicklinks. It means I can booty a quicklink on every rap!

 

Have you considered that in these low-traffic areas you are visiting, probably quite a lot of the anchors won't need replacing? Or the webbing will need it but not the rings?

 

But go ahead, buy 50 quicklinks. Or even 150 single chain links. Dont let me stop you.

[JosephH]

Jake and Chuck,

 

Either of you guys climb with Jim Tangen-Foster over in Moscow, he was over that way for years?

[sobo]

4 3 pitch routes a day? At this time of year? Are you fast and slumming, or slow and optimistic?

 

Answer: As I said above, I'll be climbing with a n00b who's never done multis. But I still think that four 3-pitch climbs a day will be doable. I'll be doing all the leading, and I've got all the routes we'll be doing wired. So I figger 2 hours per route, and they're all close together. Hit the rock at 8, off by 6. Approach is trivial. Some right from the road, all the others are 5 minutes or less from the car. One of the many reasons I love this place.

 

Have you considered that in these low-traffic areas you are visiting, probably quite a lot of the anchors won't need replacing? Or the webbing will need it but not the rings?

 

Answer: I'll be replacing webbing, and most of the rap stations were never installed with rings. If they were, someone booty-ed them long ago. Yes, peeps have been rappelling with ropes on webbing up there. Don't get on me about it; that's why I'm bringing chain links.

 

But go ahead, buy 50 quicklinks. Or even 150 single chain links. Dont let me stop you.

 

Answer: I won't.

[Blake]

I haven't doubled up on rap rings. I'm not saying i'd necessarily feel good rapping off an old ring and piece of webbing from who-knows-how-long ago, but when I'm somewhere remote requiring a rap, some webbing and a single ring is what I try and use if there are no trees. The types of gear that is lifted with standard industrial chain day after day would go far beyond the force of a rappel. Check out a marine or industrial supply store fir links if you can't find them at a general hardware store. You might just have to cut out every other link, and save the intact ones.

[Alex]

Its common to rappel straight off webbing or 6mm perlon without rings at all, especially if don't care about establishing a "proper" rap anchor for future parties.

[sobo]

Its common to rappel straight off webbing or 6mm perlon without rings at all, especially if don't care about establishing a "proper" rap anchor for future parties.

 

This is what I'm attempting to correct. The rings that I have installed at this area in the past seem to keep getting booty-ed by some fucktard(s). I'm tired of spending top dollar for Al rap rings (and doubling them at each station), so I'm looking for a cheaper and safe alternative.

[EWolfe]

Sobo:

 

One additional note on the 3-link chain set-up:

 

Chains, unlike most climbing gear are not inspected or weight tested.

This is usually not too much of an issue with double-chain rap stations, because of redundancy. A cursory glance will tell you if there is major link damage.

 

But since you are relying wholly on these three links with the mentioned set-up, it would behoove you to inspect each of the links carefully beforehand.

 

E

[sobo]

Thanks E, but I opted out of the three-link system for expediency. The quick-links were cheap and readily available.

 

FWIW, I just got back from the hardware store, where I bought a coupla dozen 3/8" quick-links (SWL = 1980 lbs.) for $1.89 each. These are the type that backcountrydog had recommended ^^. I bought a coupla hundred feet of 1" tubular webbing to go with these over lunchtime. Black was the closest I could get to a "camo" color.

 

The way I figger it, I'll put enough length of webbing on each of the two-bolt anchor stations such that when the webbing ends are brought together at the bottom, the interior angle will be reduced to a sufficient degree to keep the loads on each bolt down to respectable levels. Then I'll join them with a single quick-link. The orientation of the hanger/webbing/quick-link combination should be such that the pull of the rope will be parallel to the rock face, as you pointed out above (if it isn't, then I'll have to install a second link below the joining link, and I'll just run out of links sooner). I'll have the redundancy of the two webbing strands, and I'm counting on the single quick-link all by its lonesome.

 

For the tree stations, a I believe a "wrap two-pull one" banding of webbing and a single quick-link there as well will suffice. As my webbing ages, someone else can back it up with another strand.

 

Total invested for this effort after tax is ~$110. Wish me luck!

[Drederek]

Put a dab of JB weld on the threads of your links. They'll be a little harder to liberate that way. A small tube should go a long ways.