Bitterroots Questions

[jordop]

Bitterroots, Montana:

 

 

Discuss . . .

 

Trapper Peak area from the road. There are apparently a few grade IV 5.9s here.

 

Edited June 7, 2021 by jordop

[Lambone]

whoa jordo...take a chill pill bro!

 

after living in Montana for five years, and Seattle for five years I can say for sure that the whole "wilderness climbing scene" in Montana is much different than in Washington. The attitude is different, and there are less local climbers that have been there for a while, so their is a tight(er) knit community of guys who put up FA's. They are not allways willing to share route information with visitors.

 

Montana is just old school like that, and true Montanan's want to keep it that way. They become more bitter each year as they see their state turning into the next Colorado.

 

Did you see Ron Bronkhorst's book, Montana Alpine Climbing or something like that? As much as it sucks...it does have a bit of good info.

 

The fact is NOBODY knows anything about climbing in the Bitterroots

 

This is not true...

 

nobody at any climbing shop had fukin HEARD of the peaks I asked about...

 

either they were college kids from out of state, kayakers, or they just didn't like you.

 

Anyway, did you climb anything?

 

I can give you some good beta for routes closer to the Bozeman area...never had much money to drive up to the Missula area...so it goes living in Montana washing dishes and flipping burgers...

 

[Bug]

Chill. I have the answers you seek. Check your PM's.

[mneagle]

I spent some time working in Livingstone, MT and met several locals who were perfectly polite and easy to get to know. I wasn't struck by any elitism and within minutes of meeting a guy he doled out a ton of beta concerning alpine routes and offered to take me out that weekend where he let me lead the crux pitch on a new route he had wanted to do. He explained that the non-written agreement among Montana climbers was not to hide climbs but rather to just not publish them which would attract too much attention. I think they also like the idea of real adventure climbing without the help of a topo. He admitted that it let some of the history get lost and sometimes while attempting a "new route" he would come across an ancient piton and wonder about who had been there before. Overall, Montana has managed to stay out of the line of fire that govenment agencies have aimed at climbers in other states. I guarantee that if Infinite Bliss were in Montana its longevity would not be in question like it is in WA.

 

So if you want to get some beta, just go there and ask around. I bet you would find a partner easily and change your attitude.

[Ireneo_Funes]

OK, I don't know a thing about the Bitterroots. That said, I think it's kind of cool that there's some areas out there that aren't all mapped out with topos and beta on every pitch. Keeps some of the spirit of adventure, you know?

 

The mountains in your photo look incredible.

[jordop]

Thanks for the info all. I still take issue with non-publication. yes, a guidebook will increase traffic (there were ~double the usual flights into Waddington this year fwih), but there also needs to be a critical mass ready to act on that guidebook. From the little I learned about MT while there for a few days, it struck me that there wasn't enough of a climbing base within that state to really abuse the wilderness in the manner feared by those "in the circle"

 

Or maybe I'm wrong, maybe the climbs in MT are so damn good that even the mention of them would unleash the hoardes of Westfalia pad brahs like Orcs from the depths of Middle Earth Though I doubt the area is in danger of becoming "the next Colorado" or Bugs.

[Bug]

I grew up there. Or was stunted there. Depends on how you look at it. Whenever I go back to the Bitterroots, I look around and see lines that I have done that are not recorded anywhere. Rick Torre has a lot of info but as was said above, there is a general reluctance to publish and attract attention. You will be happier in the Wind River range or the Tetons if you want topos and gear lists. Montana is wide open. Ain't no need for no books. You take yur gear an go climb somthin. Blodgett is well dicumented as well as Kootenai and the Lolo Domes. The rest of the Bitterroots are a giant playground just waiting for the adventurous climber. Ask a trad climber and you will get a flood of info. Ask a gym climber and you will get squat. True everywhere. I can list the best canyons to look in and give you some pointers to the obvious gulleys. There are endles lines to be done and a lot that have already been done but you will not know it if you go there. There is the occaisional soft pin or 1/4" bolt but mostly, you will find clean gneiss and granite with classic crack systems and incredible summit views of endless cracks.......Expect a little walking.

[Ireneo_Funes]

Westfalia pad brahs

[Lambone]

I still take issue with non-publication.

 

Again, have you seen Ron Bronkhorst's book? They have it at FFriends and used to have it at VW in Seattle.

 

Though I doubt the area is in danger of becoming "the next Colorado" ...

 

ha! are you sure about that!? Notice all the mansions on the hill surrounding Missula? I'm sure Bug could explain much better than I how much Montan has changed over the years. I can say from my experince that i saw rapid growth and a rapid influx of climbers over the few years that I was there. Not complaining or saying it's a problem, cause if it was..then I was surely part of it....but it's happening.

 

Fortunately Monatan is saved by the fact that it has no "Denver" and Billings will never become that. Sort of a blessing and a curse seeing as the economy in Mt will never amount to shit, and it will become more and more so a playground for the rich. Making it increasingly difficult for locals to live there and afford their own land.

 

Anyway, check out Ron's book. Quite controversial when it was published.

 

Also, if you really wanna blow your mind with untapped climbing potential, take a venture into the Beartooths, specificaly East Rosebud Canyon.

[jordop]

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Edited June 7, 2021 by jordop

[nolanr]

Unless there's more than one Trappers Peak it's a walk up w/ a well defined trail and no bushwacking. Although the ascent was pretty non-interesting it's a fantastic view from the top across a pretty good chunk of the range, looks like some country that rarely gets visited.

 

I have friends that were looking for a retirement home a few years ago. They're fairly well to-do. They lived in Lolo 20 years or so ago and really wanted to return to the Bitterroot Valley. According to them it was just too pricey, and this was after living near Issaquah. So the Montana as the next Colorado thing might have some legitimacy to it.

[nolanr]

Also, if you really wanna blow your mind with untapped climbing potential, take a venture into the Beartooths, specificaly East Rosebud Canyon.

 

Both the forks of Rosebud Creek looked cool to me w/ lots of potential. East Fork area reminded me a lot of Leavenworth/Icicle Creek/Alpine Lakes.

[Lambone]

Jordo....I'm beginning to think you have some serious personality issues, who care how much brush you have clawed through...do you feel tough or soemthing?

 

I'm sorry you had a bad time at Barrel (I hate that place anyway, makes FF look like....ah nevermind). There is sort of a seperation between Bozeman climbers and Missula area climbers that is rarely bridged. Why? Cause it's almost a 5 hour drive, and Bozeman has tons of cool stuff around. Vise versa for Missula.

 

While i was livin in the Bo-Zone...I had heard about the big IV 5.9 on Trapper, and figured if I'd ever spent any time out that way I'd check it out. Never happened.

 

As far as finding good information on Backcountry climbing in Mt, I guess it's all about talking to the right people. Sometimes this means the guy at the local shop, but most often it doesn't.

[jordop]

Jordo....I'm beginning to think you have some serious personality issues.

 

Thank you. I climb with the people I do to make myself look normal.

[Lambone]

 

Thank you. I climb with the people I do to make myself look normal.

 

nice

[Bug]

Jordo....I'm beginning to think you have some serious personality issues.

 

Thank you. I climb with the people I do to make myself look normal.

You goina have a communication problm in th root boy. Norml folk stand out like a lawer in new suit.

[layton]

Jordo....I'm beginning to think you have some serious personality issues.

 

Thank you. I climb with the people I do to make myself look normal.

. Thanks, choad yodel'r

 

anyway..

Lambone, you are in violation of taking things too literally. You need to chill in your interpretation of Jordan's post. He's just annoyed at the attidude of the so called Montana hardmen. Climbers don't have any money, so even if it was the Mecca, the only new development would be the addition of a few more liquor stores.

I am in firm belief that climbs need to be published. I think that as a part of the climbing community, you need to share information. EVERY climber has used a resource like a guidebook, so to think you are above that is plain ol' Colorado type arrogance.

I'll love to drag some local Montana "hardmen" around the cascades and watch em weep for their mommies.

 

Bug, are you saying that I can just pick a drainage or valley and find good climbing? B.S. I proved this idea wrong this month on my slog-to-nothing-a-thon.

[Lambone]

Lambone, you are in violation of taking things too literally.

 

ok, I'll give you that.

 

I am in firm belief that climbs need to be published. I think that as a part of the climbing community, you need to share information. EVERY climber has used a resource like a guidebook, so to think you are above that is plain ol' Colorado type arrogance.

 

I totaly agree with you here, which is why my friend Pete and I used to hand out free hand drawn topos of local alpine routes near Bozeman at the climbing shop we worked at (Northern Lights T.C.). Alot of the routes were FA's put up by Pete, who spent many years climbing in Colorado incedently.

 

One day the Missula/Bitteroot legend Grey thompson came into Northern Lights seaking beta about a peak called Mt Cowan. It is the Mt Stuart of the Abzorkee Range (except with 5 other prominant towers). Anyway, we shared with him and he was gratefull, offerd the same if we ever needed anything from his area.

 

What'ts my point? I don't know...I forgot. More bars is good

[rat]

we climbed the thompson/abrons north face route on north trapper peak prior to publication of brunkhorst's book. we asked at the major shop in missoula (pipestone, i guess) and though no one had firsthand knowledge, they dug up an old climbing rag with a bit of info. i thought that was damn nice of them considering we didn't buy anything there.

 

the rock on the thompson/abrons route is a bit chossy. it's probably better to finish on the lowe variation than traverse the unstable ledge/blocks rightward at mid-height as for t/a route---more aesthetic line and a bit harder. the antonilli route to the left also looks nice. either way, the rock improves above mid-height. brunkhorst says to descend east but we headed west to an easy gully that took us right back to the base of the face. the approach is slack by cascade standards. expect 1 1/2 days cooler-to-cooler (a long day if you know the approach). there are lots of other walls lining the approach trail.

 

there is some info in more recent aaj's for routes in blodgett, tin cup, fred burr and roaring lion canyons.

 

hope that helps.

[layton]

There's a difference between guides like the Becky Guide, and Falcon type guides to Montana...

I mean, the becky guide has EVERYTHING (almost) in it and hardly anything gets done (per centage wise that is). If the becky guide only has WA pass for its "alpine" and the rest was crags, i bet someone from montana visiting here would have the same disbelief that our Canadian visitor Jordache had.

All I'm saying is that guidebooks, if written in a comprehnsive style to catalogue the routes for climbers, F.A.'ers, and historians, is a great contribution to the climbing community, and hardly has any negative impact.

I would love to see Beckey style guides to the Winds, Absorkas/Beartooth/Bitteroots,etc..,and Sawtooths. I guess that's what the AAJ is for, but god help you if you are going off the AAJ for a road trip.

 

don't hate the playa', hate the game.

[Lambone]

yeah, but it takes someone like Becky to write them....and apparently either no one in Montana feels like it, gives a fuck, or can. "Or can" being Ron Bronkhorst's excuse...the guy is practically iliterate.

 

I think the Winds Guide is pretty damn good, what more do you want, supertopo's? I haven't read all of Becky's guide books word for word...so I can't fairly compare.

[layton]

I haven't climbed in the Winds, but I've heard a lot of the routes and lines drawn are totally inacurate. just 2nd hand info. I didn't like how the author won't publish the 1st ascentionists' names of the route. He said that was stupid and called everythign North Face Left Center, etc... I bet there were a lot of sheep shaggin' names.

I think the winds is up for a new edition too. I don't really care since there's a lifetime of stuff already published up there.

 

The Tetons, Sierras, and Cascades have the BEST guidebooks anywhere. Those are books to strive to be like.

[Bug]

I'll love to drag some local Montana "hardmen" around the cascades and watch em weep for their mommies.

 

Bug, are you saying that I can just pick a drainage or valley and find good climbing? B.S. I proved this idea wrong this month on my slog-to-nothing-a-thon.

No wonder you got nowhere. I give beta in a PM to anyone who doesn't flame me. I said I could list the drainages where there was good climbing. That's called beta asshole. Find the rest yourself. Ask yo momma to teach you some manners boy. Just stay the fuck away from the Bitterroots and quite whining. You probably can't walk far enough to reach the really good climbing anyway.

[specialed]

Jordop you're being a dick. Lack of beta on climbing in Montana isn't so much a conscious effort by local climbers, its just because there are fewer climbers and the climbing is real "adventure" climbing, isn't that great, and isn't exactly a destination climbing area. If someone motivated to write an updated guidebook, I don't think anyone would really care. Anyway, Bug knows alot about climbing in the B-root and so do I so quit whining. Also a lot of ascents there, recently anyway, have been in the AAJ's. Apparantly you're just too fucking lazy to look.

 

BTW: asking people at outdoor stores in Bozeman or Missoula is real hit or miss b/c they are both college towns with serious fluctuating residents. Employees may not know shit since they've only lived there for 2 months. But you might also find someone who knows something.

[jordop]

Jordop you're being a dick. Lack of beta on climbing in Montana isn't so much a conscious effort by local climbers, its just because there are fewer climbers and the climbing is real "adventure" climbing, isn't that great, and isn't exactly a destination climbing area. If someone motivated to write an updated guidebook, I don't think anyone would really care. Anyway, Bug knows alot about climbing in the B-root and so do I so quit whining. Also a lot of ascents there, recently anyway, have been in the AAJ's. Apparantly you're just too fucking lazy to look.

 

BTW: asking people at outdoor stores in Bozeman or Missoula is real hit or miss b/c they are both college towns with serious fluctuating residents. Employees may not know shit since they've only lived there for 2 months. But you might also find someone who knows something.

Yes, i am mad as hell at the Montanans because there is not enough of them to properly summon a community of hype about their hills Just as i am so fuckin pissed off at the residents of Hazelton BC for not issuing a guidebook for theSeven Sisters

 

If you read my original post, you'll see I am responding to the statement of Randall Green in his book: "For the sake of preserving the spirit of adventure, we chose to leave out many routes hidden in Montana's vast wilderness areas."