Where are the platforms?

[scott_harpell]

Neither Bush nor Kerry have said what they are going to do yet. It has been 100% mudslinging. Chalk one up for Nader.

[Stonehead]

Here's what the late, great Johnny had to say about politics:

 

[slothrop]

http://www.democrats.org/about/2000platform.html

http://www.gop.com/GOPAgenda/

 

It seems to me that the RNC convention has had a lot more Kerry-bashing than the Dems' convention had Bush-bashing.

 

The Democrats have a platform, a lukewarm candidate, and plenty of enraged disorganized liberals, while the GOP has an anti-Kerry smear campaign, lots of mindless flag-waving, and good ol' dead Ronnie Reagan.

[Lars]

[scott_harpell]

The DNC had its fair share. Calling Bush incompetent and Cheney evil. Its gonna get ugly. Thanks for the websites . I see the debates are going to be a classic sophmoric display of cascadeclimberesque spray. Better take notes dru.

[Dru]

Calling Bush incompetent isn't bashing, just straight statement of fact documented in many places For instance someone who is competent to be President would never have stated publicly that he is continually searching for ways to harm America just like America's enemies are

[b-rock]

Neither Bush nor Kerry have said what they are going to do yet. It has been 100% mudslinging. Chalk one up for Nader.

 

Or perhaps it's that you're not listening?

 

If it's not on Fox News, it just ain't news.

[scott_harpell]

Where have you heard Kerry or Bush SAY what they are going to do? huh? If you are just going to go on with the ad hominim garbage, I suggest you go back to the kiddie pool kiddo.

[b-rock]

Oh STFU. I'm suggesting that if all you do is listen to the national media, then yeah you'd get that impression. If you are intelligent and involved, then you've heard plenty. 'Kiddie Pool', gee, nice rejoinder.

[scott_harpell]

Oh STFU. I'm suggesting that if all you do is listen to the national media, then yeah you'd get that impression. If you are intelligent and involved, then you've heard plenty. 'Kiddie Pool', gee, nice rejoinder.

 

Then tell me where you have heard it. I read more newspapers than you and I am sure from more countries than you and in more languages. If it is so blatantly obvious, then you should have already been able to find it eh? Or is your current google search going harder than you thought. Did you watch the DNC and the RNC? Did you hear either do anything besides pumping themselves up and drowning the other in mudslinging? Prolly not.

[scott_harpell]

Oh and if you can't be civil, at least learn to swear in a creative nature.

[Greg_W]

Well, first of all, Bush hasn't even spoken yet to lay down HIS platform. Second, I haven't heard much from Kerry other than, "Bush did this wrong, I wouldn't do that..." With no clear message or agenda.

[scott_harpell]

Precisely my point.

[b-rock]

I'm sorry, do I know you?

 

Well I'm pretty uninformed, here in the kiddie pool. If I read more newspapers from more countries perhaps I'd be as smart as you! I'm sure neither candidate has laid out any plans, say, on their web sites.

 

Civil? You started the slinging.

 

And yes, I listened to most of the DNC! And I got to watch Zell Millier friggin' wig out yesterday, that was great!

[scott_harpell]

I'm sorry, do I know you?

 

Well I'm pretty uninformed, here in the kiddie pool. If I read more newspapers from more countries perhaps I'd be as smart as you! I'm sure neither candidate has laid out any plans, say, on their web sites.

 

Civil? You started the slinging.

 

And yes, I listened to most of the DNC! And I got to watch Zell Millier friggin' wig out yesterday, that was great!

 

1) I highly doubt it.

 

2) Mabe you would.

 

3) I clearly asked if they 'said' something about their platforms... as in personally owning up to a platform rather than having an office jockey write their party platforms verbatim on their official website.

 

4) I believe it was you who told me to "Shut the Fuck Up"

 

If you would like to continue, I would suggest you try to appear a bit more intelligent by either

 

1) not swearing; or

2) at least be creative with you swear words. Telling me to Shut the Fuck Up doesn't really accomplish much now does it?

[b-rock]

Oh come on dude, you started the shit talk with your 'kiddie pool' comment, then turn this into a discussion about how I'm not being civil. The STFU was directed at your insults, not your comments. For someone who claims to be as smart as you are, you really don't think all that hard. Have a nice day, I've got to get some work done.

 

Crap Ass Damn, Bitch!

[slothrop]

If video is too low-brow a medium for your multiple-foreign-language-newspaper-reading mind, you can read the transcripts, too:

 

http://nytimes.com/2004/08/30/politics/campaign/RNC_SPEECHES.html

 

Or there's this summary of Kerry's positions, as posted on the NYT website (sorry, in English):

 

Abortion Supports abortion rights.

Affirmative Action: Supports affirmative action policies.

Campaign Finance: Is not accepting public financing for his presidential campaign.

Death Penalty: Opposes the death penalty.

Economy, Taxes & Trade: Would repeal President Bush's tax cuts, primarily for families with incomes above $200,000.

Education: $3.2 billion community service plan for high school students that would qualify for them for the equivalent of their state's four-year public college tuition.

Environment: Would steer $20 billion from oil and gas royalties to development of cleaner energy.

Foreign Policy, Terrorism & Iraq: Supported decision to go to war but now says he did so based on faulty U.S. intelligence.

Gay Rights: Would ban job discrimination against homosexuals and extend hate-crime protections to gays.

Gun Control: Opposes granting gun makers immunity from civil lawsuits arising wrongful use of weapons.

Healthcare: Planned spending on large health care programs amounts to about $76 billion a year.

Homeland Security & National Defense: Voted for the Patriot Act, but is now in favor of letting it expire.

Social Security: Kerry opposes privatizing Social Security and is against raising the retirement age to 67 or reducing payments.

 

And for a Euro perspective: http://www.zeit.de/politik/usa/wahl2004

[scott_harpell]

Oh come on dude, you started the shit talk with your 'kiddie pool' comment, then turn this into a discussion about how I'm not being civil. The STFU was directed at your insults, not your comments. For someone who claims to be as smart as you are, you really don't think all that hard. Have a nice day, I've got to get some work done.

 

Crap Ass Damn, Bitch!

 

Actually the insults started at your implication that I watch Fox News. This is a tired overgeneralization and it is quite false as I don't even have a television.

[scott_harpell]

Slothrop, I do not see anywhere on the NYT website where it says this was stated by Kerry. True, it may be his platform, but that wasn't the point of this thread. Was it?

[scott_harpell]

Did you read Die Zeit? Because... despite my reading difficulties, I cannot see any Kerry articles that do you attack Bush's war record. All show eh?

[scott_harpell]

Die Zeit's article shows the waring of the VP's as well going back to Dan Quayl getting insulted. What was the point of showing me 2 articles which prove my point precisely?

[slothrop]

From the text of Kerry's speech (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5552784/). He may not have written it all, but he sure said it:

 

"I know what we have to do in Iraq. We need a President who has the credibility to bring our allies to our side and share the burden, reduce the cost to American taxpayers, and reduce the risk to American soldiers. That's the right way to get the job done and bring our troops home.

 

Here is the reality: that won't happen until we have a president who restores America's respect and leadership -- so we don't have to go it alone in the world.

 

And we need to rebuild our alliances, so we can get the terrorists before they get us."

 

"We will add 40,000 active duty troops - not in Iraq, but to strengthen American forces that are now overstretched, overextended, and under pressure. We will double our special forces to conduct anti-terrorist operations. We will provide our troops with the newest weapons and technology to save their lives - and win the battle. And we will end the backdoor draft of National Guard and reservists."

 

"We need to lead a global effort against nuclear proliferation - to keep the most dangerous weapons in the world out of the most dangerous hands in the world. "

 

"The 9-11 Commission has given us a path to follow, endorsed by Democrats, Republicans, and the 9-11 families. As President, I will not evade or equivocate; I will immediately implement the recommendations of that commission."

 

"As President, I will not privatize Social Security. I will not cut benefits. "

 

And several pages' worth after this, where Kerry lays out his platform for the economy, health care, the budget deficit, taxes, and energy policy: "So here is our economic plan to build a stronger America..."

 

Sure there was some oblique (and not-so-oblique) Bush-bashing, but there's also plenty of policy in there.

[scott_harpell]

Does it say how he is going to do it? The only unifying statement in Kerry's speech is that "I wont do something different than GWB... I will do everything different."

 

Many of these statments seem to be mutually exclusive ones.

You want stronger arm ploliferation? Without alienating allies?!?

 

It is all fine and dandy that you want a stronger America, but how are you going to do this (besides doing the opposite of everything that Bush has done).

 

Mabe I am asking too much of politicians, but this seems ludicrous to me.

[slothrop]

Did you read Die Zeit? Because... despite my reading difficulties, I cannot see any Kerry articles that do you attack Bush's war record. All show eh?

 

Huh? "articles that do you attack Bush's war record"?

 

It looks like most of the articles are analysis about the race itself, with not much discussion of the domestic platforms of either candidate. Most of what I read discussed the strategy of the two parties and how effective they are (polls, swing states, approval ratings, etc.). And then there is plenty about the Iraq conflict. Not surprising that the focus of German coverage is on international issues (the war) and the political process in the US (which Germans may not understand, since it's different than their own). I wouldn't be surprised if Germans have little interest in US domestic policy, since it doesn't affect them directly. Just like you don't read much in US media about the huge issue (to Germans) of pension reform in Germany.

[slothrop]

So are you complaining that Kerry lacks a unifying vision (what is Bush's)? I thought you wanted to hear him speak about his platform, which it seems that he has done.

 

We managed to have strong nuclear arms anti-proliferation with our arch-enemies, the Soviets, during the Cold War. Remember START and all that? I'm sure that, unless we pursue the policy unilaterally (Kerry's not for this, as he himself has said), we can help reduce the spread of nuclear weapons. I doubt Bush is capable of swallowing his pride and dealing fairly with other countries in pursuit of non-proliferation. There has been virtually no effort to control the spread of nuclear weapons under Bush.

 

Discussion of the fine points of policy is beyond the scope of an acceptance speech. I don't think you'll find Bush delving into more detail than Kerry, and I wouldn't expect him to. That's what all those staffers are for--to write the long, detailed policy documents that hardly anyone reads. You can find the details on both the GOP and Dems websites, if you're so inclined.

 

But I think you'd rather argue semantics ad infinitum.