Accident mechanism? solutions?

[Thinker]

I was catching up on the NPS Morning Reports http://www.nps.gov/morningreport/ today and ran across this one:

 

quote:

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02-343 - Rocky Mountain NP (CO) ? Rescue

 

On the afternoon of Sunday, July 21st, rangers received a report of a seriously injured climber in the westernmost area of Lumpy Ridge, a popular rock climbing area. A 32-year-old Loveland man had fallen nearly 100 feet after leading a portion of a 5.11 climb on Sundance Buttress. According to his climbing partner, the fall, which occurred at the top of the first pitch, was caused by a communication breakdown between the two climbers. A total of 30 people from the park's SAR team and Larimer County SAR provided ALS and rescued the climber. The evacuation was over 1800 feet of scree and rough terrain to a waiting medevac helicopter. The climber sustained multiple spinal, internal and bilateral injuries to his lower legs. He was flown to Poudre Valley Hospital in Fort Collins. [Doug Ridley, ROMO]

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So what can we suppose happened here? Does 'communiacation breakdown' translate as being taken off belay before being anchored? How many of you/us use radios to reduce 'communication breakdowns' on long mulit-pitch routes? Any other favorite fail-safe techniques?

 

[ 08-15-2002, 11:27 AM: Message edited by: Thinker ]

[Bronco]

check these out. My dad bought some similar ones for communicating with his dockhands while he's on his boat. totally hands free and cheaper than a half rack of micro brew. may not fit under your helmet but, you can play war with them still.

 

 

walkie talkie

[Rick_Sharpless]

RAdio needs battery, fragile, requires free hand to operate, may fail without notice. Does not sound like good alpine safety system equipment.

 

Voice and rope tugs need no batteries, aren't fragile, generally work while the climber is still alive, need no extra hands.

 

Seems like a simple one to me. The KISS rule wins every time.

[icegirl]

reminds me of another scuba diving thing...

 

http://www.divelink.net/

 

A large part of why I dive is the solitude factor. Same kind of thing for climbing...

 

Hands free headsets a the sporto crag.. I can hear it now...

 

"Man, where's the next hold?" "just to your right, a little more, a little more, that's right, you got it?" "thanks dude!" "think this counts as a redpoint?"

[Dru]

Metolius used to sell laser pointers so you could say "Grab that hold right there with your left hand dude" and put a red laser dot on the hold you meant!!

 

[ 08-15-2002, 01:19 PM: Message edited by: Dru ]

[Dr_Flash_Amazing]

Ugh. Even Dr. Flash Amazing won't go that far. Although those laser-pointers would be good for playing "stick" in the gym, so you don't need an unwieldy stick. Yep. Right.

[Thinker]

I've found that communication usually isn't a problem. But, when it us, there's usually enough rope drag that tugging on the rope is a hopelessly inept way to communicate. I generally go with the 'when the rope comes up tight, give em a minute and start disassembling the anchor' routine, making sure to watch that slack in the rope continues to be pulled in. Still, there are those times when you just never REALLY know what's going on up/down there.

 

The accident above makes that point dramacally (and tragically).

[Figger_Eight]

That's why all climbers should carry cell phones. Just make sure you program your partners number into the speed dial. Better yet, get a cell phone with a voice activated dialer.

[allthumbs]

[JayB]

Well - I suppose with any tool it comes down to the competence of the person using it. Anyone who can't decide when it is, and isn't appropriate to try to operate them in the middle of a climb "I'm at the crux....jam not very good..greasing out...pulling cam off rack...can't...quite..place it....faaaaallllling...", can't manage the basic tasks associated with keeping them in working order in the field, or becomes utterly dependent on them as a substitute for the normal signals should probably take up a different pasttime, IMO.

 

I've used them once, when a partner of mine brought a pair for a long alpine route in Rocky Mountain National Park. It wasn't an especially difficult route (like III 5.8 or something) but when we ran into the stuff that can make communication difficult, like rope drag, constant high winds, snow, and not being able to see one another I can recall of a couple of times when they helped out, like the point when my partner had run out the rope and needed me to simul-up about 10 feet so that he could make it to a stance where he actually had some pro and could make an anchor. The ability to discuss the situation right away instead of hanging out at the belay forever wondering what the *#@! was going on up there resulted in a faster, safer ascent than would have been possible otherwise. The additional speed was especially nice as the afternoon electrical storms were already on their way. I wouldn't mind having a pair on me on long alpine routes if in the event that I ran into a situation like that again, for the same reason that I keep a pair of ti-blocks, a couple of prusiks, and a knife on long routes. Don't need any of them very often but they're awfully nice to have when you do.

[Dru]

if'n you use those tiblocs a lot you wont have any need to use the knife on your rope it will already be shredded!

[fern]

quote:

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Originally posted by icegirl:

Not sure how well they would work in the alpine environ. Cold (batteries), wet (electronic), icy (slippery), big mittens (small buttons), etc...

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I have never used these thing, cannot corroborate ... but I know the guys who did the route 'Hoth' on South Tower of Paine Patagonia used radios and I don't think conditions get much more crap than what they had.

[JayB]

I If it's too windy to communicate verbally I've always used a system of tugs to notify my partner when I'm off belay after a lead, when they're on belay and can climb on, etc.

 

Having said that though, most parties can probably get by using the normal verbal signals in conjunction with the conclusion that when the leader starts to pull the rope, he's safely anchored, and establishing that the leader will put the second on belay as soon as all of the rope has been pulled up and a minute or so has passed.

 

I just like to have a system to back up the normal cues for those times when it's windy, rainy, dark, fatigue has set in, and the like and the potential for fatal mistakes due to miscommmunication is a bit higher.

[Dru]

I only climb with telepathic partners that can read my mind. That seems to work.

[Dr_Flash_Amazing]

Only climbing 50' sport pitches is another great way to keep communications open. Long routes are just plain dangerous!

[JayB]

Those radios with the hands-free operation would be nice though. I've just never hand any money left over for such things in the gear budget after buying ropes, pro, etc.

[icegirl]

I saw a team of mounties using those on the tooth a few years back. They seemed to make things worse, then again, it could have just been who was using them... The girl kept taking her hand of the belay to use it, and they guy kept using to tell her to put her hand back on the rope... the ones they had were not at clear as they could have been, so there was a lot of "What?" "slack" "what" "slack!" "what?!" "Take damnit!" Of course we could hear both sides of the conversation because they were, in reality, within earshot, and not a breath of wind.

 

Then the gal dropped one, amazing how many little bits it can break into... Ah. silence...

 

Not sure how well they would work in the alpine environ. Cold (batteries), wet (electronic), icy (slippery), big mittens (small buttons), etc... If they were made for underwater use, that would be another story

 

climbing with a trustworthy known partner, knowing your "through the rope signals", AND being telepathic seems like the way to go

 

[ 08-15-2002, 12:44 PM: Message edited by: icegirl ]