Mtnclimber Posted August 17, 2004 Posted August 17, 2004 I am looking for advise from all you 5.11+ trad climbers out there. What is the perfect rack set up for 5.10+ crack routes. As I become more confident at climbing 5.10 trad routes my new problem is what to keep on my rack,what to leave behind and how to rack the gear ie. on my harness or on a sling.( I hate when the perfect piece for the crack gets it's beiner jammed. I have 31 Cams ranging from 00 alians to #5 Camalot with many doubles throughout key sizes and 3 sets of nuts and a set of lowe tricams. How draws do you carry? If I was to carry all of this I would be laughed at. My main question is how do I stay organized so the piece of gear that I need when I am 10feet+ above my last piece is easily accessable. What is your favorite Cam size and what brand of nuts do you use. My favorite Cam is the green alien and .75 camalot I use WildCountry nuts. Thanks Quote
JosephH Posted August 17, 2004 Posted August 17, 2004 Well, hmmmm, these are some different questions - I'll bite and give it a whack (even though I'm probably not back up to 5.11+ yet). I'm not sure that what pro you have/like is as important as how comfortable you are with it all, and how well you know where it all is when you need it as you climb. Perfection would be looking at a placement and reaching for the right piece of pro without looking. Striving for that requires that you somehow organize your rack in a consistent manner. It almost doesn't matter what the pro is or how you rack it so much as you rack it a way it works for you and that you do it the same every time. I'm personally transitioning to a new system that's more to the liking of my partner Marco compared to how I've racked things for thirty years (which no one but me liked...). I have all my pro color coded by size using the colors of the Metolius cam slings - i.e. all the pro that's the same size as a yellow slinged metolius cam has yellow tape on it, etc. In the past I had all the pieces of the same size on a single biener (gate down and out on the sling [all Petzel Spirits since my old rack was stolen]) with the stoppers on top and the cams underneath. They were then on my sling with doubled spare bieners chained in front followed by draws (doubled short loops, not sport draws), and then pro smallest to largest with the largest in the back. I never had any problem getting the pro I want off of a biener on the sling, but pretty much everyone universally thought it sucked. But with the clean front to back ordering of pro by size I usually got what I wanted by feel without looking. Now, however, my partner Marco and I both have Metolious "Big Wall" slings with two slings (single loops, not the segmented ones). We rack draws on the left, spare bieners doubled up on the chest loops (and harness), then on the right are stoppers segregated into four size groups on four bieners up front, followed by individual cams on bieners from the smallest to the largest, then finally by five or six Lowe Balls on two bieners in the back (or if it's looking really thin I'll throw a couple of crack'n'ups on the back as well). I also have Aliens (only the hybrids with different size cams) that I've had the loops shortened to match the length of the metolius cams and will sometimes put them in between the matching metolius cams if there appears to be a need (usually on older, granite routes with pin scars). The transition to the new system has been pretty smooth as everthing is still racked front to back by size, but where Marco climbs with the stopper bieners gate up and removes an entire bunch from the sling to place one, I turn the gates down and out and just remove the piece I need. It's worked out to be a good compromise. The only part that's taking a little getting used to is on roped solos where the rope is coming out the right side of a small pack on my back and I'm still sorting out some of the rope/gear interaction. As for your other questions, my favorite size cam is the one I need next. For stoppers I like old DMM nuts, HB Offsets, Metolius Curves, and OP Tri-Nuts. On the quirky side, I have shrink tubing on all my tricam slings that stiffens them and sport tape connecting the nut part to the slings so you can place them like a wired nut with the nut either in the up position like a stopper or down like a cam. All the lower tubing on my small Lowe Balls got heated real good and flattened out so they go into thin cracks better. All my larger cams have thin cotter pins on leashes to pin the cams back so they don't catch on stuff on the way up. I also carry a #9 Forrest Titon (on a shoulder sling) Hugh Banner was nice enough to part and feel utterly naked without it. Also, I often carry two Skyhooks for opposition or just as pro on large flakes - usually on granite (they and the crack'n'ups have short loops of thin cord for racking so the points aren't dragging). Let's see, what else... Oh, a couple of my draws (again doubled short slings) also have doubled elastic cord for holding pieces in opposition. I'd very much recommend that not all your draws be sport draws as that is typically the reason why you hear folks complain about stoppers/gear coming out as they climb past it - you have to be prepared to always put the right length sling on a piece and that's tough to do if all you have is sport draws. You're also asking how to decide what to take on a particular route which is a really tough question. When I'm training I take it all. Otherwise it depends on either eyeballing the route, seconding it with someone else who's done it, or getting beta on it - all of which make up a totally personal choice. I generally don't want beta or even know what the rating/name is - I just like to eyeball routes and try to climb them (or not), sometimes I surprise myself, sometimes I get surprised, and sometimes (like Saturday) I have an epic big or small. But if you've never been on a route, or been to the area, and can't get beta you'll have to guess like the rest of us and after going up a few routes a bit light on gear a couple of times you'll probably start erring a bit on the heavy side like most of us do in unfamiliar territory. That said, you should be able to make some educated guesses based on the type of rock and nature of the climb. The more yardage and experience you get in the better you'll get. My only comment would be that if you get highly dependent on guidebooks, ratings, and beta you'll probably always need them - better to learn on your own. [Also keep this in mind: I have a friend who is a fabulous guitarist and he can make a kid's toy guitar sound great whereas I make a Martin D-28 sound like a kid's toy. In fact, there is a guy named Bart up in Hood River who owns a consignment shop with a big, circa 1987 picture of a guy jumping an old windsurfer and a little sign under it that says, "The gear then was better than you are now...". The bottom line is, don't make too much of the gear, it's just stuff and all of it is better than what folks used to put up really hard, scary routes in the 70's and 80's - get to know yourself and the rock better and the gear will start sorting itself out. Quote
JosephH Posted August 17, 2004 Posted August 17, 2004 P.S. If anyone has a double-slotted #10 Titon or any size Crack'n'Ups they'd be willing to part with I'd like them, ditto for Lowe Balls (the older ones with a longer lower stem...). Quote
Bill_Simpkins Posted August 17, 2004 Posted August 17, 2004 Try this with the gear you have. Aliens .4" to 1.75"-about 6 cams Pink and red tricam on one biner Camalots #0.3 to #4 Doubles of camalots #1-#3 (+#4 if fist crack) Stoppers #2-12 - On one or two biners. Cams each on own biner. (total 6+8+3=17 cams) 3 short draws, 3 alpine draws, 4 shoulder slings with biner on each, one double shoulder sling with biner. 3 extra biners in case you run out of draws and need slings for stoppers. Note that depending on the climb you can leave some of the cams on the ground. Good Luck! Quote
lancegranite Posted August 17, 2004 Posted August 17, 2004 Double rack of TCU's blue-black (.5-2) Single #1-3 hand sizes Single set of wires. Single set of HB brass. Unless the guide calls for something different. Quote
Bronco Posted August 17, 2004 Posted August 17, 2004 I am looking for advise from all you 5.11+ trad climbers out there. What is the perfect rack set up for 5.10+ crack routes. Seems to me like you may be putting a little too much thought into the details. Why not just use what you like best? I'm not a 5.11+ tradster and maybe never will be but I sincerely doubt the decision to use aliens vs tcu's is going to make much difference in how hard you climb. Focus on other stuff like improving technique, footwork, visualizing the moves and concentration in general will probably get your a bit farther than having the "right" cam. As you climb more, gear selection will become less of an issue and almost instinctive. I'm not sure why I'm giving you this advice, if you're comfortably leading 5.10+, you're climbing harder than I am. Don't forget to have fun! Quote
Szyjakowski Posted August 17, 2004 Posted August 17, 2004 its all about the shoes, man, the shoes! and balance. Quote
RuMR Posted August 17, 2004 Posted August 17, 2004 what's that? Is that the same thing as crimp power??? NewRiver joke...how do you use your feet better??? PULL HARDER... Quote
Szyjakowski Posted August 17, 2004 Posted August 17, 2004 no balance is how you move your body over the holds with your feet and fingers. so, i guess i should have said its all about the core! and how many burgers and beer you keep in there for emergencies! sheeesH! Quote
RuMR Posted August 17, 2004 Posted August 17, 2004 move your body over the holds? Isn't that just PULLin' hard?? I'm still confused...i don't get this balance stuff? Quote
RuMR Posted August 17, 2004 Posted August 17, 2004 i can't help it that i'm short, fat, w/ no balance and ugly to boot!! You shouldn't pick on trolls...they can't help how they were born... Quote
Szyjakowski Posted August 17, 2004 Posted August 17, 2004 troll this RuMR but not mine...thanks. Quote
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