tomtom Posted June 9, 2004 Posted June 9, 2004 Press Release "According to Atwater, the program, while considered successful by every measure according to him, has been assailed by non-participating companies for years. “We took flak for a long time over our involvement in the program. Many of our critics claimed we took advantage of an unfair business advantage but I challenge them to show me just where it was. We didn’t get any breaks in labor rates or wages and security issues and tool counts ate up our rent allowance. Meanwhile, inmates who participate in this program were 87% less likely to re-offend than inmates who didn’t. Besides learning how to become metalworkers, machine operators, clerks and assemblers, these men were able to remain a viable and integral part of the lives with their families on the outside. Most of them sent money home every month to help maintain what they left behind. It helped them to have something they could look forward to when they were released,” said Atwater." Quote
Greg_W Posted June 9, 2004 Posted June 9, 2004 That's unfortunate. I always thought it was a good program. Not to mention the fact that allison hated it, which gave me an automatic affection for it. Quote
Figger_Eight Posted June 9, 2004 Posted June 9, 2004 I thought it was a good program as well. Bummer. Quote
Dru Posted June 9, 2004 Posted June 9, 2004 isnt this kinda old news cause there was another thread on here about this 2 months or so ago? Quote
Beck Posted June 10, 2004 Posted June 10, 2004 OP announced it this spring, so it's old news. Not to worry, inmates will still be prepackaging starbucks coffee and other jobs, so don't feel bad for the inmates, plenty of other corporations will still exploit prison labor in this country. Quote
JoshK Posted June 10, 2004 Posted June 10, 2004 Is the program optional for the inmate? I see nothing wrong with allowing them a selection of jobs they can participate in to earn money for their families, their post-prison lives, etc. Quote
fenderfour Posted June 10, 2004 Posted June 10, 2004 That's not the right attitude Josh. Until we know absolutely 100% for sure that the inmates are making as much money with comperable benefits befitting the latest reforms in the affirmative action laws can we be entirely sure that the inmates are not being exploited. Personally, I'd like to see more chain gangs. Quote
Greg_W Posted June 10, 2004 Posted June 10, 2004 OP announced it this spring, so it's old news. Not to worry, inmates will still be prepackaging starbucks coffee and other jobs, so don't feel bad for the inmates, plenty of other corporations will still exploit prison labor in this country. Proof once again that you've destroyed most of the cognitive ability that your brain once had. You've become a male version of Allison. Quote
iain Posted June 10, 2004 Posted June 10, 2004 I wonder how many prepackaged Starbuck bags have been spit into. Quote
Dru Posted June 10, 2004 Posted June 10, 2004 remember, the best prisoner is the one making the most biners. Quote
shapp Posted June 22, 2004 Posted June 22, 2004 Screw the prisoners. They are the ones that are breaking into my car and house, raping, murdering, and molesting. Let them rot! Do you want to trust your life to a biner made by someone like that. Also the prison industries are usually unfair competators with private industry, taking away the job of hard working people. And before you say it, no government agency yet has been able to make the playing field even for this type of competition. Look into it the competition problem before you start your hypothetical arguments. One of the main reasons that OP was able to sell their biners so cheap was the huge subsidy the got on water and power cause the government didn't make them pay their fair share. I believe the reason they had to leave was due to a potential onstitutional ruling although they tried to state otherwise. Quote
cracked Posted June 22, 2004 Posted June 22, 2004 Yeah, right. Taxpayers are paying huge amounts of money for these people to be locked up; if they work they are doing something productive, and they are offsetting that cost. As for those who scream "they took my job! ()", maybe you should find a job other than menial labor in an assembly plant. Quote
shapp Posted June 23, 2004 Posted June 23, 2004 Cracked doesn't know wtf he is talking about. Climbing manufactures run more than just a menial assebly plant. Spoken like a true Seattlite computer punching, coffee drinking snob who doesn't give a shizz about the people that do all the hard work out their to make your life easier. BTW I am not a blue collar worker but have much respect for those tweakers unlike yourself. Quote
cj001f Posted June 23, 2004 Posted June 23, 2004 Cracked doesn't know wtf he is talking about. Climbing manufactures run more than just a menial assebly plant. They run a menial metal working & assembly plant. The reason prison labor is good is a little thing called "recidivism", as in there's less (meaning the inmates cause less crime on release) when they've gotten some vocational training. Quote
cj001f Posted June 23, 2004 Posted June 23, 2004 Go shapp! shappattack!!!! Marylou's obviously a fan of a permanent prison underclass in the US. Quote
cracked Posted June 23, 2004 Posted June 23, 2004 Cracked doesn't know wtf he is talking about. Yet you do? You don't have an argument in your post. Climbing manufactures run more than just a menial assebly plant. True, but the assembly lines is where many (most?) of these prisoner employees work. Ever toured a climbing gear factory? I have. They use unskilled workers in their assembly lines. Imagine that! Spoken like a true Seattlite computer punching, coffee drinking snob who doesn't give a shizz about the people that do all the hard work out their to make your life easier. What about all the hard work that the 'computer punchers' do making your life easier? Think about that next time that you log on and check your email, swipe a card at the supermarket, or use your cell phone. You just come off as a moron using this argument. Pretending that somehow white collar people don't work hard, and the poor blue collar underdogs are the ones that we should actually admire is ridiculous. BTW I am not a blue collar worker but have much respect for those tweakers unlike yourself. You 'respect' them, yet you call them 'tweakers'. Hmmm... Here's my conclusion: Quote
shapp Posted June 23, 2004 Posted June 23, 2004 Who built your house? I bet that is a little more important than you cell phone or credit card. We don't need electronics to survive, but when the trades are gone, like wood work and metal work then we are really in trouble. I predict that the electronic age will be a part of our eventual societal down fall in some major way. Can you fix your car all by your self now? I didn't think so. But take a car about 30 years old, you could tear it apart and put it all back together without any chips or computers, yet those cars got the same gas mileage and nearly the same emissions as many of the new SUVs and sports cars on the road today. The whole sale crisis of identity theft is largely a product of the electronic age, long term data storage issues will be a serious issue in the next few decades since we haven't found a media that can store electronic data for say 100 or 200 years like books. I may be a dumbass, but I can build my house I live in and grow my own food, while you may be able to write a program and type 90 words per minute. I think we should let out a few of those man rapers and stick them in a rehab place right next door to your place so you can get what you deserve. Quote
Beck Posted June 23, 2004 Posted June 23, 2004 Regarding altruism on the part of a corporation, it just doesn't happen. OP made biners with prison labor because of the bottom line. The prisoners earned 80 cents an hour(I'd have to check the facts, but it wasn't minimum wage) , and OP got tax breaks and other incentives for doing so. Maybe Washington dept of corrections could train prisoners in how to write code, then siphon jobs away from tech industries. Or get call centers going, where prisoners take calls and do marketing. NOT. I'm not against prisoners working. But prisoners packing coffee, making biners, and running call centers as a way to save corporations dollars (and take jobs out of a local economy) is wrong. Give prisoners Sysiphean jobs. In Michigan, the state prison manufacturing program put the largest office furniture manufacturer IN THE WORLD out of business by competing on an unfair playing field. No more Steelcase furniture. I heard someone lamenting the loss of her steelcase desk just last week, complaining about cheap ass fiberboard crap it was replaced with. Prison labor isn't a wholly positive solution. Quote
cj001f Posted June 23, 2004 Posted June 23, 2004 I'm not against prisoners working. But prisoners packing coffee, making biners, and running call centers as a way to save corporations dollars (and take jobs out of a local economy) is wrong. Give prisoners Sysiphean jobs. Since when are state prisoners not part of the local economy? They have family's to support - and this can be one of the greatest hardships of a relative going to prison. Yeah there lot's of cases of unfair competition form prison labor (Yosemite Valley RR vs. the Prison Labor Built El Portal road) If you'd read about the plan you'd know that Labor Wages were lower at the Prison, but overall business cost wasn't much different - increased security, etc. As for Shapp's rant - there's something wrong in this country when the average Electrian makes more than the average Electrical Engineer. Quote
tomtom Posted June 23, 2004 Author Posted June 23, 2004 But take a car about 30 years old, you could tear it apart and put it all back together without any chips or computers, yet those cars got the same gas mileage and nearly the same emissions as many of the new SUVs and sports cars on the road today. I'd like to see your proof on the emissions bit. Quote
cracked Posted June 23, 2004 Posted June 23, 2004 Someone doesn't realize how much he relies on technology. Quote
Dru Posted June 23, 2004 Posted June 23, 2004 As for Shapp's rant - there's something wrong in this country when the average Electrian makes more than the average Electrical Engineer. This is the market correcting for an oversupply of electrical enginners and an undersupply of electricians. It will last until some of the ee's decide to retrain and get an electrician's ticket. Quote
cj001f Posted June 23, 2004 Posted June 23, 2004 This is the market correcting for an oversupply of electrical enginners and an undersupply of electricians. It will last until some of the ee's decide to retrain and get an electrician's ticket. Try a market distortion caused by the very effective Electricians union. Quote
Dru Posted June 23, 2004 Posted June 23, 2004 GLUT OF ELECTRICAL ENGINEERS! there is an oversupply of "skilled professions" and an undersupply of trades throughout N America right now. "Even" lowly positions like arborists although it doesnt take much skill to cut a tree down right Kurt Quote
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