Onsighting

[sketchfest]

I thought this question had come up in a previous thread, but I couldn't find anything when I did a search. My question is, how can I improve my onsight capabilities?

 

I can generally climb .10's without much problem, even get on some easier .11's, but when I walk up to a new route that is within my range or maybe near the edge of it, my brain gets in the way and I struggle like crazy and manage to get myself all pumped out.

 

Who's got some ideas on how to shut that part of my head down so I can just enjoy the climb without all the other crap getting in the way?

[Alpinfox]

Maybe practice downclimbing and finding rests so you can recon a crux, downclimb, rest, try it again, downclimb, rest, SEND! Not always an option of course. Specially at Smiffy.

 

And just do a lot of onsights.

 

If you are reluctant to move off sketchy holds cuz you are afraid of falling, take some clean falls on a good bolt.

[Winter]

Sketch -

 

I assume ur talking leading and mostly sport routes. If so, I typically: 1) try to get in the habit of falling so your not thinking about it, and 2) think feet feet feet feet feet. I find that by focusing on my foot work I zone out all the other useless shit in my head.

[Matt_Anderson]

And if you're talking mostly about trad, then I would say that you should:

 

1) try to get in the habit of falling so your not thinking about it, and 2) think feet feet feet feet feet. I find that by focusing on my foot work I zone out all the other useless shit in my head.

 

One thing to remember is that most people onsight a full number grade less than they redpoint, so if you generally can redpoint .10's and are onsighting .9's, then that's the norm.

[EWolfe]

1.) Find a well-protected clean fall on a sport route, and practice falling from gradually increasing heights until you feel comfortable falling.

 

2.) Downclimbing is a critical tool to onsighting - remember your last rest and how to get back.

 

3.) Sometimes onsighting means running it out or skipping a clip.

 

4.) Look the route over as thoroughly as you can beforehand, visualizing sequences and remembering critical L or R hand/foot placements.

 

5.) Warm up well, and give yourself an hour or two before trying your onsight.

 

6.) Visualize moving through the crux as you are getting ready to move to it.

[sketchfest]

It doesn't seem to matter if it's sport or trad, I've taken fair size whippers on both, it doesn't really seem to be a a big fear of falling.

 

I think the down climbing idea might be a good one to try. It seems like when I move into the crux I can't make up my mind where to go or what to do and all that wasted time equals wasted energy, then I get pumped, then I fall.

[EWolfe]

Additional note: you are also dialing in the moves below the crux during the downclimbing process, thus making the approach less energy sapping for next try.

[sexual_chocolate]

What are you feeling BEFORE you even get on the route?

 

I can often tell if someone is gonna get a certain climb before they even get on it, simply by noticing what kind of mental state they are bringing to the climb.

 

It sounds to me as if you might be sketching a bit mentally before you try an onsight? Getting overly nervous and pressured?

 

If this is the case, I'd try to do something to relieve yourself of the stress.

Look at the route you're trying, and keep looking at it until it starts to make some sense, ie. where are the rests, where does the crux seem to be, how might the crux go, clip stances, number of draws needed....

 

After you feel comfortable about having it scoped out (be honest with yourself and don't get impatient. Keep looking at it 'til it makes sense), then sit down for a few minutes and take a few slow deep breaths to relax yourself. Seriously, maybe even time yourself to make sure you're giving yourself 5 minutes of relaxation before going (impatience is a tendency I see all the time!).

 

This is all after a decent warm-up, maybe a lap or two on something a couple of grades easier than what you're trying, just to limber up and get a little pump going. Just make sure you rest after the warm-up.

 

Good luck, and hopefully that can help you.

[Winter]

Use the Force, Luke.

[lancegranite]

Stand back and look at the thing.

They call it onsighting, but a good once over can tell a lot.

Gear placements, route finding, rests...It's all there.

 

Being really strong helps too.

[ashw_justin]

I think the downclimbing thing is bad advice. Why would you downclimb? That's a symptom of fear that you can't do the move, or that you wont get the "onsight." Just climb the damn thing, try to keep as much weight on your feet as you can, stay in balance. But just f'ing climb! If it is within your onsight capabilities, you will onsight it. If not, big deal you took a fall and you get to try the moves again.

 

This is not to say that resting your body and collecting your thoughts is not important. But you should already be doing this automatically whenever you find yourself in a comfortable position. That way when you come to the crux you are not already pumped. You get pumped cranking the crux, but you'll probably find a decent place to rest once you just crank through it. Why try the stick-and-move strategy when you can go for the knockout!

[Dr_Flash_Amazing]

The advice about really looking the rig over and getting the most thorough understanding of EVERY ASPECT of it you can is golden. Knowing how many draws you need but not thinking about possible sequences will not help you much. Look over the route thoroughly and honestly assess where the crux is, prepare yourself mentally for it being hard, and then examine the shit out of it, looking especially for sucker holds. Chances are there will be some, and every sucker that got on the route before you chalked them up, and then fell off. So identify that kind of thing, and resist the temptation to follow those holds when you get up there, since the sucker holds are usually better than the actual holds you're supposed to use.

 

Get psyched and focused on success; work through all the moves in your head as best you can; think about clip stances, rests, and a potential sequence through the business, as well as envisioning clipping the chains. Follow-through, grasshopper. There's a fine line here between getting psyched and mentally prepared, and piling too much pressure on and hosing yourself, so relax. Just know that you're going to give it your best go, and whatever happens, happens, but this will be rooted in the knowledge that you have the route as figured out as you can, so you have a good chance of success.

 

The fact is, while a lot of this stuff can help you up your success rate, onsighting often comes down to luck, too. Sometimes there will be some subtle, funky-ass body position required to do a move, or the sequence will be completely counterintuitive and it takes a lot of goes to even figure it out. But sometimes the shit just clicks, and of course trying a lot of these handy suggestions will up your chances of getting lucky.

 

While not out at the crags, try doing laps on as hard of routes as you can manage at the gym, and work on climbing through your pump. Being pumped has a big mental component to it, which has to do with your brain noticing the major lactic acid flood in your muscles and doing what it can to stop whatever is causing the flood, in this case climbing. Hence you start breathing shallowly or not at all, you start getting tense, sketchy, or scared, your footwork goes to shit ... basically everything you DON'T want happening when you're already pumped.

 

So the first thing you can do when you're doing laps (bouldering traverses are good too, if you can clear a swath through the mob) is focus on how you're feeling. When you feel the pump coming on, notice what else is happening, and take steps to consciously counteract the negative effects. Focus on breathing regularly and deeply; if you have to tell yourself out loud to breathe, do it; if you have to breathe loudly so you know you're breathing, do it; if you need your belayer to remind you to breathe, by all means have him do so. Remind yourself to relax; you're not in danger, so you don't need to be scared or start tensing up or being sketchy, you need to relax and focus on your climbing, on your footwork, on calmly and controlledly getting to the next rest. When you calmly and controlledly get to that rest, continue focusing on all those things. Find the best body position, try using different grips to find the most relaxed one, breathe slow and deep, get a good shake out, scope the next few moves. You'll soon find that you can really control the degree to which being pumped effects you, and you'll find that you can do a lot more climbing than you thought when you're pumped -- getting pumped does NOT automatically mean you're finished.

 

Start easy with the laps routine, and find a good route or routes to use for your laps. Dr. Flash Amazing is a fan of picking something moderately challenging to climb up, then using all holds to climb down, but you can mix it up however. Sometimes you feel like a champ and can be near your limit up and down, but it's best to find the right balance between keeping yourself working and being able to keep going. If you're getting sapped, switch from a taped route to using all holds, and mix in the occasional hard move or two, getting a good rest on a jug, then busting a couple of crimps or whatever, then resting again. It's all about learning what you can do, and how to recover on a route. You shouldn't be using routes that are at your limit for this, in other words, and you should be on terrain that allows you to focus on staying in control, rather than on whether you can even do the moves.

 

So what's the next potential onsight?

[Alpinfox]

I think the downclimbing thing is bad advice.

 

Yeah, If you climb up to the crux and find that you're out of position or you need to switch your hands, just DYNO dude! Whatever you do, don't downclimb and reposition yourself. That's a sign of FEAR!!!

 

[ashw_justin]

I think the downclimbing thing is bad advice.

 

Yeah, If you climb up to the crux and find that you're out of position or you need to switch your hands, just DYNO dude! Whatever you do, don't downclimb and reposition yourself. That's a sign of FEAR!!!

 

 

hahaha that's a good one. I wish!

 

repositioning so you can do the move is not the same as downclimbing to rest and whimper...

 

I've done both and the latter is not as likely to get you an onsight.

 

...okay, maybe if the last hold was REALLY good... but psychologically, running away solves nothing

[Alpinfox]

 

Perhaps the good doctor, expert sendbot that he is, will chime in and let us know his estimation of the utility of downclimbing to a rest as an onsighting tool?

 

 

[ashw_justin]

Ah hell does onsighting even matter? I've always just seen it as an irrelevant little bonus, or at most, an artifact of climbing skilz. You want to onsight harder, then just climb harder, and you'll be onsighting harder in no time.

 

Or freesolo. That'll teach you to onsight right quick.

[RuMR]

shoot...i do that on redpoints too!!!! Go up, make a tough clip retreat to a stance and then try to punch through...

[EWolfe]

I think the downclimbing thing is bad advice.

 

Yeah, If you climb up to the crux and find that you're out of position or you need to switch your hands, just DYNO dude! Whatever you do, don't downclimb and reposition yourself. That's a sign of FEAR!!!

 

 

 

Thanks, Pax. I was trying to hold my back at dis foo.

[ashw_justin]

Hey, take that to the rock!

[EWolfe]

Ah hell does onsighting even matter? I've always just seen it as an irrelevant little bonus, or at most, an artifact of climbing skilz. You want to onsight harder, then just climb harder, and you'll be onsighting harder in no time.

 

Or freesolo. That'll teach you to onsight right quick.

 

(comment suppressed by MisterE)

[ashw_justin]

Yeah ok guys, sorry for making this into a cc.com thread... just ignore my stupid ass if you don't like what I'm sayin'. I still think downclimbing is not the answer...

[Distel32]

I still think downclimbing is not the answer...

 

and I still think you have taken one too many lines in the back corners of Wilson Library.

 

downclimbing can make huge differences! If you get up to the crux and can't figure it out and you have a huge jug two moves below, are you just going to try and do the moves when it doesn't feel right?? Or are you going to go to the jug and look things over and look for possible feet and any other way you can change your sequence???

 

I just don't understand what you're saying. And fuck the whole mental coward thing! that makes no sense.

[ashw_justin]

Man, Distel, you're the last person I expected to defend the downclimbing thing. How many times do you downclimb a boulder problem! Ok, I know you do more than boulder, but I expected that you of all climbers, who can send V8, would agree that when the going gets tough, you just gotta have some faith and stick it!

 

Resting is resting, but downclimbing the route is the exact opposite of your goal. By the way I'm defining downclimbing as more than just resting, or changing body position. Downclimbing is when you significantly lower yourself through a set of moves that you've already put behind you. Don't get me wrong, downclimbing has its place, such as when your protection is unsafe. But this is not an issue in sport climbing.

 

Anyway I'm not claiming to be mister onsight or even a particularly strong climber so if my opinion bothers any of you, then you can rest comfortably with the notion that you can probably out-climb me.

[EWolfe]

First free, no-beta, ground-up ascent

 

(downclimbing seen, but still got the onsight )

[Distel32]

First free, no-beta, ground-up ascent

 

(downclimbing seen, but still got the onsight )

 

classic E

 

Justin: downclimbing a couple moves is still downclimbing, I've done it before on routes even! Boulder problems are different, very few rests. but if it was a long problem I might try it. Usually you get beta, more flashes in bouldering than onsights.