Hardest routes in Eastern Washington?

[MCash]

Since Mr. Bland is posting here now I have a couple questions:

 

1. What is currently the hardest sport route? Is it still Tyler Derden and Motley Crux (both 5.13D)? Anyone getting close on any 5.14 projects?

 

2. What is the hardest boulder problem? Is Elevation (V11) at Banks still the hardest?

 

3. Hardest trad route? I have no idea on this one. Dane?

[Dane]

Got me on that one. I thought Lingerie (done as a straight in crack and no stemming) harder than anything on Chimney and Jihad equal to any finger crack there.

 

When Randy's guide came out I was the only one to have lead all the harder Chimney routes (all but two multiple times times) . I tried to give Randy a comparison of known routes he and I had done else where (Yosemite, Levenworth, Index, SC). Dave Fulton, and Jay Koopen added to that info having done a number of the routes. Some of the easy comparisons were Clean Crack at Malemute, Lion's Chair, Lunatic Fringe, Lazy Bum, Thin Fingers at Index, ROTC and Steven's Pass Motel and Spellbound. There were others but that is what comes to mind at the moment.

 

We all know hand and body size can make a big difference in cracks. Max Dufford, Randy Green, Martin McBurney and Dave Fulton were the only guys I knew repeating the harder cracks in the Inland Norwest Area during the late '80s and early '90s without taking some good wingers.

 

Max and Pat Mahoney repeated Tsunami and IIRC Max thought it 5.11b. Max, Jim Purdy and I repeated Yahoody. Again if IRC their concensus was 5.11b. Compared to the infamious Daryl Cramer/ Index 5.11b.

 

If you look at Randy's "Idaho Rock" fifteen years later I might suggest looking at the ratings posted for the East face of Chimney rock as a progressive rating system instead of a letter grade that is comparable to anything today.

 

All that said the harder trad pitches on Chimney are, the roof pitch of Tsunami, the middle pitch of Eye of the Tiger, the corner on Grey Matter, GreyStoke, Yahoody's line and Yourinalasis. All of them are excellent cracks and there are several I didn't list equal to any mentioned including "UNI" just left of Magnum Force, or Illusions and Kimmie on the main east face.

 

Almost all of them are right hand layback cracks. All of them are nice trad routes but I couldn't tell you with any truth which is the most difficult by grade.

 

All of them were done ground up, on sight and typically with no falls. I suspect a couple of them might actually be 5.11a/b. The feed back I have heard from the guys repeating is typically, "it aint that hard, I only had to hang a few times through the crux".

 

I would have thought someone would have dug up one harder than .11b/c by now?

[Distel32]

there are harder boulder problems in 11worth.

[Dane]

The question was for eastern Washington. Banks Lake is pushing "eastern" IMO.

 

Just a thought.

 

Cascades define the Eastern border of the West side, Columbia basin the Cental and the confluence of the Spokane and Columbia as the western edge of the Eastern section of Washington.

[Distel32]

whatever.......who put up the 11?? got any pics?

[MCash]

I assume that Johnny Goicoechea put up Elevation. Not sure though. He is the only person around here bouldering really hard. He has put up quite a few at Banks. I don't have any pics, sorry. I've seen a bunch of his problems out at Banks, very impressive. Way over my head.

 

I assume no response from Marty means there is nothing harder than I posted above for #1 or #2.

 

Dane, thanks for the history on trad routes.

[Marty]

1. Sport Routes-- The hardest redpointed are still Tyler Derdan @13d and Motley Crux at 13d. Since most anything over 13a has only been repeated once or twice around here (with the exception of the routes at Deep Creek) consolidation at the higher grades has not in my opinion been achieved. Johnny Goicachea (I still can't spell his last name) is the only one to repeat Tyler Derdan and he figures it to be 13d solid. Motley Crux is still awaiting a repeat. Johnny didn't do that one probably because its long and pumpy with a little pump crux at the top. Johnny's a great boulderer but not as good at endurance climbing. I tried to repeat the route a year ago for fitness but never did. It could be harder than 13d but there's no one to compare notes with yet.

The third hardest route is Big Papa Pump given 13c in the Pit at Deep Creek. It actually took Johnny more tries to do this one than Tyler Derdan and its like a V7 with a rest to a V8 and the chains. Nobody else has had any luck with it and it has been attempted by some contenders.

As for projects that could be climbed and that are for sure 14a, there are a few of those. The project to the left of Walk the Plank at Marcus has to be in that range. There is a variation on Tyler Derdan that finishes on 12GA Pump that is at least 14a. With a little work and this and that the Arena and Pend orille Village Crag could host several high end routes but they need to be cleaned, Bolted, and then sent by people with the drive to do routes that hard. I'm trying a project now that I would say is 14b that is to the left of Motley at the Pit. And of course the summer area of Riggins Idaho holds multiple 14a's. Some have actually been sent even. The stone is here but how many 14's can a guy clean, bolt, and climb a year? I'd be psyched if I just completed the projects that were laying around out here.

 

2. Bouler Problems-- Johnny G. and Cole Allen (who has the most dubious record of B.S. ascents) have established or been on all the hard boulder problems (Bouldering is only training for climbing) in the area. Levitation V11 is the coolest hard problem that I've seen out of Johnny. It's at Banks Lake and is a huge dyno off bad hands and feet. There's some 10's and 11's and higher at Tum Tum but giving directions is too hard. Minnehaha has Revolution at v10 which has actually been repeated several times. I still think that the best bouldering can be found on the end of a rope at one of the limestone crags or Deep Creek. The attention deficit don't think so though.

 

3. Trad Routes-- Naked Man 12a at Deep Creek has been done on gear. I wouldn't recommend this but I don't know of any harder trad routes. Dane knows more than I do about this but the hardest route at Chimney that I have been on was to the right of Greystoke. I was on a toprope but there's a thin crack/flake to the right that looks like it is fragile for the 1st 10ft (say you fell on your cam and it broke the flake/crak) but is actually a very good pitch. It seemed to be about 12a or so I thought. Dane if you read this I should send you a copy of Randalls out of print topo and you could draw in the routes that he doesnt have in there?

[Distel32]

thank you for saying what you did about Cole. Someone had to say it sometime.

[Dane]

Marty is this the crack you are talking about right of Greystoke? It is pretty thin on the bottom and fragile so it sounded similar. Crux was higher IIRC. I ended the short pitch at the no hands stance just below the o/w crux of Magnum Force and rapped off something that was there (plus some backup I left)...rap slings on a chock stone IIRC.

 

 

 

In addition to UNI pictured above there is another crack I had forgotten, "Amoral Raiders". Again off the end of the South Nose ledge with Greystoke, Uni and Magnum Force coming first. Raiders is on the white "blade" of rock right of Magnum Force. It starts off in a solid tips/finger crack with a boulder problem crux and then goes into a straight in, thin hand crack off a little pinnacle. Rap sling can just be seen on the big detached block mid frame on the right in the pictures above. Another short pitch and originally one of Randy's and Martin McBurneys' projects. I knocked out their fixed pin on the lower crux and then later lead it on a tcu. Caused some little friction between Randy and myself. Silly, now.

 

I have a picture slotting the hands section somewhere. (unique @ Chimney because the crack is straight in) I suspect it is the technically most difficult trad pitch on Chimney because of the boulder start. Hard enough I top roped the bottom crux section a couple of times first, from the little pinnacle. (it wasn't my project which is why I have tried to forget it I suppose and where the "amoral" came from)

 

There is another NE face route, seperate line top to bottom that goes through an undercling arrow head shaped roof half way up, "Stained Window". No where near as hard as the others there and a nice line, .10a or so and long.

 

I had stopped keeping a really detailed journal in '86. The climbs I just mentioned were done in '87/'88. A number of folks have done routes not yet mentioned. "Wish he were she" one of them, another, a bolt ladder continued up from Greystoke's bolt anchor to the South Nose ledge, which also didn't thrill me as it was done top down. The crack connecting Yahoody'd first pitch to Cannary Legs and Cooper/Hiser. Must be others.

 

I have a good set of topos based on the picture below. But nothing really showing the Greystoke/S. Nose area directly. UNI is the last crack shown on the left in this picture. You can just make out the dbl set of short corners midway up the rock and just left of the long, white "blade" of Magnum Force and Raiders.

 

 

 

[MCash]

Interesting stuff, thanks Marty and Dane.

 

There's some 10's and 11's and higher at Tum Tum but giving directions is too hard.

 

I was at Tum Tum on Saturday and noticed several problems at the base of Deception. I had no idea there was stuff V11 or higher there. The well chalked routes at the base of Deception seemed quite moderate. I talked briefly to two guys bouldering there who were from Montana. They went uphill and east of Deception Crag.

 

Is the hard stuff at the actual Tum Tum crag or accross the lake at McLellan? Any idea on when the McLellan guide is coming out?

[Marty]

The hardest stuff done is all over that 2mile or so of hillside at Tum Tum and not Mclelan. Johnny and I hiked all over McLelan on day and found really only vertical problems. The boulders are steeper on the Tum Tum side for some reason so they have got more play. Arden Pete's been bouldering a lot at Mclelan latley so maybe he has found some harder stuff. Bring some brushes and stuff and you'll find all sorts of stuff to boulder.

And I don't really know the names of the TumTum formations so Deception doesn't really help me out. Sorry.

[drater]

Some teenage kid named Jonnie from Spokane sent the sitdown start to Wajigigi and called it V10 or V11 in the Okanogan in '99 or '00. He had established numerous other hard boulder problems in the Minnehaha area around that time.

Lots of other sick, hard stuff being sent in the 'nogan for years. Definately a slew of problems V-Hard up there.

 

Marty, I'm sure Fred Nicole and other short-rock hardmen have their own opinion on "bouldering only training for climbing"

[NYC007]

there is a bouldering guide coming out soon for McLellan,I hear, from Dave. Lon at Mgoat can tell you more about it.

[NYC007]

dunno

[Dane]

Marty stated that UNI pictured above and again here originally done on 8/10/88 and rated 5.11b was the "5.12a" he top roped in the previous post.

 

 

Dane, sorry I almost forgot to answear your question again.

The crack at Chimney rock that I was talking about was Uni. The moves on the route were very good but we had just rapped off the ledge above and saw it and took a top rope burn. By no means did I free climb the route on gear so I was just tossing out the approx. 12a grade. You might also find these days that the grades have suffered some inflation

 

http://www.cascadeclimbers.com/threadz/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/365360/Main/363588#Post365360

 

Just to be clear there are several much harder climbs on Chimney than UNI. None of them were ever thought to be 5.12. Having done all of them, many of them several times, I would find it really hard to believe any climb of the old trad lines at Chimney are now .12, sorry.

Take a trip to the Valley, Index, the Chief or Indian Creek if you are thinking differently.

 

Edited June 25, 2004 by Dane

[leearden]

There is some good bouldering across the river from TumTum at McKlellen.

 

True, there is less of the steep cavey stuff and therefore less of the v-hard problems, but there are at least 2 nice concentrations of problems within sight and shooting distance of your car.

This is crucial, as the change from climbers' vehicles and anything else pawn-able has been a steady source of income for the local crankmonkey contingent.[the amphetamine crank - not the verb crank]

 

I reckon there are clean problems maybe v6. There is probably harder stuff too, but I am everyman and everyman don't boulder v10.

Some of the best problems are on walls or boulders that are a little spicy at 3 fathoms high. As yet these high problems with picture perfect landings have not been retro-bolted, because...

The Spokane Indian that climbed these problems in leather soled Moccasyms 5 hundred years ago did them without chalk.

The legendary Kim Momb (spelling?) did them without a crash pad.

Moderate highballs offer a greater sense of accomplishment for the climber than a contrived piece of crap 3 bolt sport route. and therefore...

We should be able to do them without 3 bolts to protect our gaping kitties.

 

I've been working on some topos of the boulder circuits and Dave Stephens should have an overall area guide(sport route and boulder areas) out there soon.

[Marty]

I have to appologize, but there was this 5.21c out at Dishman. It was like 5.11 through the first bolt. Then the next two bolts were like V23, but you had to clip in the middle of this ohh soo henious boulder problem, so actually it is was probably more like V24 I'd say. After the V24 (we'll call it that since you had to clip or hit the dirt at this point) it was only like 12d to the top, and we all know if your bouldering V24's, 12d is pretty easy so it would have been just a glory stroll to the chains.

Well, I've only boulderd up around the V10 range, and only seen and felt V13 so I made some holds past the V24 and the routes only 12d or so now. Sorry, future mutant fly people, who will have evolved from us measly humans in the year 5019 for ruining your recreational activities.

 

I'm going to hang myself, in total shame, in my basement now. Sorry again.

[Dane]

Ya, easy to get confused when you have to chop a few holds just to get up something at "your" level.

 

But how would you know what your level is if..every time you can't do a climb you just ...oh, ya, chop yet another hold.

[RuMR]

I have to appologize, but there was this 5.21c out at Dishman. It was like 5.11 through the first bolt. Then the next two bolts were like V23, but you had to clip in the middle of this ohh soo henious boulder problem, so actually it is was probably more like V24 I'd say. After the V24 (we'll call it that since you had to clip or hit the dirt at this point) it was only like 12d to the top, and we all know if your bouldering V24's, 12d is pretty easy so it would have been just a glory stroll to the chains.

Well, I've only boulderd up around the V10 range, and only seen and felt V13 so I made some holds past the V24 and the routes only 12d or so now. Sorry, future mutant fly people, who will have evolved from us measly humans in the year 5019 for ruining your recreational activities.

 

I'm going to hang myself, in total shame, in my basement now. Sorry again.

[leearden]

Hey Bland,

Thanks for stirring the shit in this chat room. I've quite enjoyed reading all the same old ethical debates, and I'm sure the latest stink out at Dishman will get a few more Spokane climbers off the couch, if only to rap the dishman cliff with a sledgehammer or crowbar.

I'm sure you know where my opinions lie on the subject, but despite my traditional ethics I've quite enjoyed climbing at dishman this spring and summer, in fact more than ever before.

 

I know you're not solely or even mostly responsible for "Bionic Crag" (formerly dishman, but rebuilt it is faster, stronger, better), but thanks for giving those of us who like to think we're purists a target for our frustration.

 

I'd like to kick your ass for your desecrations, but last time I got in an argument with you over ethics we were in a certain trailer park in a certain place that rhymes with "Sweat-aline Balls" and I took the worst beating of my life so far. So have your way with any cliffs you want, as long as it's for the greater good.

 

by this I mean...

(More climbers in the parking lot at Dishman =

Less Prostitutional parking and fewer discarded condoms

More climbers at dishman =

fewer people discarding old vehicles and appliances at

Dishman)

 

P.S. is the Chimney route that is pictured above the one that you wet your pants and cried like a girl trying to bail off of? or have you been back since to have another 2 pitch day and alienate another partner?

I jokes, I'll hold the gri-gri for you any day my friend, as long as I don't want to climb too.

 

 

 

tick marks are for sissies and alzheimer's