Bad Belay

[erik]

quote:

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Originally posted by glen:

Knots on rap ropes are certainly a must unless there is abnormal fear of weird ass rope tangling from flakes, etc.

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i disagree...

 

[ 05-20-2002, 10:25 AM: Message edited by: erik ]

[jkrueger]

quote:

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Originally posted by erik:

quote:

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Originally posted by glen:

Knots on rap ropes are certainly a must unless there is abnormal fear of weird ass rope tangling from flakes, etc.

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i disagree...

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OK, I'm curious - why do you disagree?

[Guest]

in really windy conditions you should lower the first on the end of the rope and then rap down. i never used to tie the ropes (by the way tie the ropes separate to prevent twisting), till i almost rapped off the end many ears ago in the dolomites in the dark. if you rap in a really windy conditions (like 70+mphr winds) put some pro as you get lowered. that way you'll prevent from being slammed into the wall

[freeclimb9]

In wind, you can also use a pack like a rope bag, or have the rope lap-coiled in a sling clipped to your waist, and rappel. Lowering increases the risk of cutting your rope.

[iain]

I don't always use an autoblock, as someone mentioned. On a two-rope rappel it can be a pain in the ass. The rope weight prevents a smooth, fast rappel.

[mattp]

I don't know about the autoblock, but I'm with those who say you don't want to make an automatic habit out of tying knots into the ends of the rope -- especially if you are on less than vertical terrain, and if the rock has crack and flakes sytems and if there is any wind... If I'm worried about rapelling off the end of the rope, like when rapelling completely unknown terrain where I can't see the cliff below, I sometimes set the rappel as normal, threaded and ready to pull, and then tie it off with an extra knot on a bight clipped to the anchor so that the rope cannot pull through. The first climber rappels on a single line, with a belay on the other, and then both lines are down so the second simply unties that extra knot and proceeds as normal. The first climber can tie the ends to the anchor as deemed necessary.

 

[ 05-20-2002, 01:59 PM: Message edited by: mattp ]

[glen]

Another one...

 

First trad lead (Nailbox crack, 5.8, Pinnacles N.M.). Of course it's on scary rock with a poorly developed crack. My partner (supposedly more experienced) convinced me that I would only need one set of nuts (1-10 wild country, and all we had) to lead it. So I get up there, I'm a lot nervous because I *know* that most of my placements are bad and I'm in the middle of the crux. I look down at my belayer and notice that his girlfriend has her tounge firmly lodged in his ear and he's, er, um, well... distracted by it.

 

Attentive belayer, I think not. Lots of bad judgement on my part to get into that situation, but I still think that making out while belaying is a bad idea.

 

[Wallstein]

Not a first hand story but a real good one. A buddy of mine was on a wall route in Patagonia. Well they had been up there for a couple of weeks and away from home for some months. The belayer was especially missing his girlfriend and all of the pleasure she brought him. Well lets just say he was trying to imitate her and he got a little out of hand and fell out of the portaledge half naked.

[erik]

why do you put a knot in the end of a rap rope??

so you dont rap off the end right?

 

what is the #1 way to get a rope stuck? have a knot in the end of the rope.

 

what one compoenent of this eqaution can you control with as little negative effects?? both!!!!

 

if you are worried about it getting stuck or if you are unsure if your rope touches or if the wind is blowing hard(there are others!!)...then you need to rap with the rope and feed as you go down...this alleviates most of the stresses..

 

you should also always check double check your rap stations and always rappell with an auto block.....

[chris_w]

quote:

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Originally posted by jkrueger:

quote:

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Originally posted by erik:

quote:

---

Originally posted by glen:

Knots on rap ropes are certainly a must unless there is abnormal fear of weird ass rope tangling from flakes, etc.

---

i disagree...

---

OK, I'm curious - why do you disagree?

---

I don't always tie knots at the end of a rap line. It depends on the conditions. If it's really windy, the rope can get blown around a corner and get snagged on something you don't see. I've had it happen too many times with the "Always tie knots" thought.

[Off_White]

another belay horror story... A number (well, a large number) of years ago in Yosemite, we were in mob mode at Middle Cathedral. Galen was leading the first pitch of Stoners Highway, when we heard the clatter of stonefall and took cover. Galen began frantically downclimbing to the last bolt, which he grabbed and cowered while the rocks landed. The rest of us were amazed to find Neil, who had been belaying, in the bushes with us, though not as stunned as Galen was to look down and see the rope in an unaccompanied pile on the ground. Neil, who was a roommate of mine and Galen's, had to endure a raft of abuse until such time as he moved out of the house, out of town, and out of our lives.

 

As another dusty horror story, Bob and I were up around the 12th pitch of a route on Trono Blanco in Canon Tajo as it was getting dark. He led the 5.8 pitch without the rack, since it only had one piece of pro at the start. I had to follow with the bivy gear on my back, and the rack and other stuff in a teardrop pack on kangaroo style, with one EB and one rotten canvas surfer shoe (left the other rock shoe in my driveway) along a diagonal line above a roof that I would plummet over if I fell. At the belay, I found Bob tied into the only sling he had, my chalkbag sling that had been sewn with cotton thread in a 1926 Sears sewing machine, and wrapped around a small dead tree. That was okay though, cuz on the next pitch (in the dark, belayed on a single #4 stopper that he couldn't see, but must be good because he couldn't get it out) it became apparent that I had not completed my tie in knot down on the big ledge two pitches below, so if I had fallen I probably wouldn't have even weighted the belay before I proceeded to descend the rest of the 1200 feet to the bottom of the canyon. Yes, I still climb with Bob, as well as myself....

[rbw1966]

Didn't John Long write about you guys in his book "Close Calls. . "? Were you the guys who broke their water bottles and only had tequila to drink?

[Off_White]

quote:

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Originally posted by rbw1966:

Didn't John Long write about you guys in his book "Close Calls. . "? Were you the guys who broke their water bottles and only had tequila to drink?

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No, though we did drink a little water of unknown origin from an antifreeze bottle left on the bivy ledge. I haven't read Close Calls, so I couldn't swear we weren't in there. I suppose its possible he could have some embellished version, since I think he was living in San Diego at the time. I should write that whole climb up some time, its a hilarious "gumbies on parade" epic. Hilarious I guess because I'm still around to tell it...

[rbw1966]

Its a real funny story. Talks about how these two smoked a sacajaweeda, drank a bottle of tequila and "stared at the sky like perfect morons."

 

Then they bailed the next morning due to dehydration, shared a hot coke (only beverage in car) and proceeded to get said car stuck. It would be sad if it wasnt so damn funny.

[oldclimber]

My belay horror story doesn't have quite the humor of some of the previous posts, but for me it was a "stupid and glad to be alive" experience. A million years ago, for reasons I can't remember, we were in the habit of tying in with a figure 8 loop to a locking biner on the harness. I was seconding the the vertical step off the end of the ledge on the Ramp route on w. face Guye peak when I watched in horror as the end of the rope with the loop in it slowly inched up in front of my face and almost out of reach. With a couple hundred feet of air under my heels I began to scream for slack, grabbed the rope and managed to clip back in. How the rope came unclipped I'll never know, but it doesn't matter. That was the last time anything but a rewoven figure 8 directly to the harness attached me to the rope. Ah, the follies of youth !

[glacier_dup1]

Not quite a belay story, but a mean joke played 400 feet up...

 

OK, so I introduce a couple of friends a few years back, since they were both students and had weekdays off. So they went sportclimbing for a day, then decide that they want to do Liberty Crack. So they are above the aid pitches and my one friend is taking off up the 5.9 crack when my second friend looks up at him and says, 'Hey, ever notice on these big biners that if you turn this collar, the gate doesn't open?'