layton Posted February 29, 2004 Share Posted February 29, 2004 1st I'd like to start this with an: Ode to my Red Alien O! Red Alien You are what I grab first in desperate times. You always place true, with your four lobes engaged soft metal to set up your home inside the steep cracks where you never stray or walk far from there and when I fall you are there to catch me. You are the one that I love best. Anyway, there was some good debate on this site in scattered forums and threads about aliens vs. zeros. Discuss what sizes you like of each and why one's better. I have never used zeros so I don't know. As far as sizes for aliens, red's the biggest I like, but the best too. Wouldn't you rather have softer metal on your smaller pieces to keep em from ripping out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plexus Posted February 29, 2004 Share Posted February 29, 2004 I've never used WC Zeros and I only have the blue Alien. It is a great piece that I feel comfortable with and seem to make a bomber placement with no matter the situation. My only complaint is I lent mine to a friend once and got it back looking like it got gang-raped by a pack of #4 Camalots!! Also the price could be a wee bit more economical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Posted February 29, 2004 Share Posted February 29, 2004 I am absolutely in love with my Aliens- I've got black, blue, yellow, red, purple, and white. Red and yellow are the ones that I use the most, and I have fallen on both my yellow and blue Aliens that had far less than ideal placements- both held. I've fallen on my white one as well. For me, Aliens are the easiest and quickest cams to place in smaller cracks...they work wonders. I have never used WC Zeros, so I really cannot state my opinion on them, but to me they look like they're not as durable as the Aliens...just an observation. At any rate, I'll be keeping Aliens on my rack for quite some time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted March 1, 2004 Share Posted March 1, 2004 i hate aliens except for the largest sizes (like orange) alien cons: cams are made of too soft aluminum and deform easily shaft is too flexible but doesnt flex to head giving floppy feel recessed springs in head pick up grit and dirt and become hard to clean easiest cam to get stuck i have ever tried. do they even have cam stops? i can't remember. booty come, booty go. WC Zeros have none of these problems and rock my dome. I wish they made a #7 and a #8 Zero though. I suppose you can use the regular friends in those sizes but I think the zero would be lighter and more flexible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snoboy Posted March 1, 2004 Share Posted March 1, 2004 You try to get your cams stuck? I think they have cam stops in all but the smallest sizes. The old school pin ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpinfox Posted March 1, 2004 Share Posted March 1, 2004 WC Zeros Size Color Expansion (mm / inch) Weight (gm / oz.) Strength (kN) Cam Stop Strength (kN) Z1** Purple 5.5 - 7.8 / .22 - .31 23 / .81 3 3 Z2** Green 7.0 - 9.8 / .28 - 39 29 / 1.02 4 4 Z3 Silver 8.5 - 12.2 / .33 - .48 43 / 1.51 6 6 Z4 Gold 10.3 - 16.0 / .41 - .63 50 / 1.94 6 6 Z5 Blue 13.0 - 19.0 / .51 - .75 57 / 2.01 9 9 Z6 Red 17.0 - 24.0 / .67 - .94 61 / 2.15 9 9 Aliens 3/8 = 9.9 - 17.0mm / 9.3kN / 71g / blue 1/2 = 12.7 - 17.0mm / 11.6kN / 74g / green 3/4 = 15.5 - 27.1mm / 12.9kN / 83g / yellow 1 = 19.0 - 33.7mm / 12.9kN / 88g / red 1-1/2 = 26.1 - 41.4mm / 15.6kN / 110g / orange 2 = 30.5 - 49.5mm / 15.6kN / 122g / violet 2-1/2 = 35.5 - 59.7mm / 15.6kN / 139g / white Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted March 1, 2004 Share Posted March 1, 2004 i hate aliens except for the largest sizes (like orange) alien cons: cams are made of too soft aluminum and deform easily shaft is too flexible but doesnt flex to head giving floppy feel recessed springs in head pick up grit and dirt and become hard to clean easiest cam to get stuck i have ever tried. do they even have cam stops? i can't remember. booty come, booty go. WC Zeros have none of these problems and rock my dome. I wish they made a #7 and a #8 Zero though. I suppose you can use the regular friends in those sizes but I think the zero would be lighter and more flexible. I just sold my two largest Aliens, Clear and Purple because I never use them. I use the Green and Yellow more than any other size. The soft metal is a definite asset. It is exactly the reason why they hold in marginal placements. How do you get an Alien stuck? I've never even come close to it and have never seen a fixed Alien. The recessed springs are the only way to get such a narrow head on a four cam unit. Granted they are more work to maintain, but it's worth it. The zeros look incredibly fragile, but I'd like to give them a try in the smaller sizes. Ever take a hard fall on one Dru? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted March 1, 2004 Share Posted March 1, 2004 i have owned 2 aliens in my life, both were booty and were beat up pieces of shit when i got them strangely enough both were later fixed by partners. one walked up under a flake and the other one crawled deep into a crack. like i said booty come booty go. but i was not impressed. i have used other partners aliens and not liked them. on the other hand i bought the 5 and 6 zerocam, used them one day and liked them enough to run out and get the 3 and 4. i have done a hanging belay on 5.10 alpine rock on just the 4 and 5 plus an RP. i dont like those soft cams on the aliens. seems like it is more useful for sandstone than granite and i climb sandstone like once a year. also dont like the trigger on the aliens. it is the same low grade trigger as the splitter gear cams. in short aliens suck. all you aliens rock guys, have never used zeros. once you have you'll switch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted March 1, 2004 Share Posted March 1, 2004 Time will tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snoboy Posted March 1, 2004 Share Posted March 1, 2004 Trigger repair on Aliens is a mofo, but the triggers on Zeros look even more hellish. Haven't had to do one yet though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted May 15, 2007 Share Posted May 15, 2007 I said "time will tell". Since this thread started, I've had Aliens get stuck and I've had Aliens invert. I've become familiar at least with the Red #6 Zero, if not the smaller ones. My Zero is the short stemmed variety, although I've not encountered a situation yet where that was a problem. It goes in all the same places that my Yellow Alien worked, plus would be more reliable in a shallow vertical placement, I should think. There have been a lot of Alien recalls and failures in the past couple years. There's no way I'd ever buy another Alien, as long as they are made by CCH. Unfortunately, the only overlap between the two lines is the smallest three Aliens with the largest three Zeros. If they made larger Zeros, I'd buy them in a heartbeat. They'd be much more versatile than the TCUs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenderfour Posted May 15, 2007 Share Posted May 15, 2007 I've been using two sets of zeros (long stem) for about a year now. I've also got a couple sets of Hybrid Aliens. They are neck-in-neck in my book. If Aliens would have been on sale when I got the zeros, I might have gotten a set of both. I have noticed some deformation on the aliens when doing some casual bounce testing. The zeros only look used so far. The wires on the aliens slip through the holes in the trigger, twisting the lobes so that I can't place them immediately. This is quickly fixed with a spot of superglue. Wire repair would be a bitch for either. The distance between the head and the hardwire are about the same for both. I'm betting equal shittiness. The doubled slings on the Zeros are way cool, but I think you can get Aliens with long slings these days. Aliens are definitely better when it comes to head width. C3's maybe be an answer to this. I took a decent fall on the red (largest) zero. No problems. I also took a small fall on the yellow (second largest) it was cool too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted May 15, 2007 Share Posted May 15, 2007 Do you think cam stops on the Zeros are an asset, neutral or a liability? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenderfour Posted May 15, 2007 Share Posted May 15, 2007 I think camstops are taken for granted these days. Very few cams don't have them. They are certainly not a liability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenderfour Posted May 15, 2007 Share Posted May 15, 2007 I think camstops are taken for granted these days. Very few cams don't have them. They are certainly not a liability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-spotter Posted May 15, 2007 Share Posted May 15, 2007 the reason they don't make bigger Zeros is because the Tech Friend that is the same size works just as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted May 15, 2007 Share Posted May 15, 2007 I have a couple of the Tech Friends and they are not as flexible in the stem as the Zeros. The wire used is 1 x 19 compared to the 7 x 19 used in the Zeros. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
counterfeitfake Posted May 15, 2007 Share Posted May 15, 2007 I tried to place the yellow zero on saturday and it was no good. In that placement the gray TCU was the BOMB. THREE-WAY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
layton Posted May 15, 2007 Author Share Posted May 15, 2007 What I like about Aliens is the softer metal and floppy nature. They "set" nicer. I can just see that C3 pulling since it is not only stiff but smooth, especially in a vertical placement. The Zeros are floppy, but too wide and not as soft metal. I've flown onto all my aliens a ton and they've always held, even the black one. If they'd just ramp up their quality control, I'd buy them again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-spotter Posted May 15, 2007 Share Posted May 15, 2007 I have a couple of the Tech Friends and they are not as flexible in the stem as the Zeros. The wire used is 1 x 19 compared to the 7 x 19 used in the Zeros. in the bigger sizes flex is useless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenderfour Posted May 15, 2007 Share Posted May 15, 2007 Maybe this latest QC issue will force CCH to sell the patent/design. I know BD wouldn't pick it up, but maybe Trango or (gasp) Madrock would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-spotter Posted May 16, 2007 Share Posted May 16, 2007 Maybe this latest QC issue will force CCH to sell the patent/design. I know BD wouldn't pick it up, but maybe Trango or (gasp) Madrock would. out of rubber? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenderfour Posted May 16, 2007 Share Posted May 16, 2007 Check the website wer in ur rakz makin ur gearz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-spotter Posted May 16, 2007 Share Posted May 16, 2007 i thought those werre just someone else's biners with the logo added, like metolius biners are really Lucky's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanielHarro Posted May 16, 2007 Share Posted May 16, 2007 aliens are the goods, as long as they dont fail on you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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