marylou Posted February 20, 2004 Posted February 20, 2004 I think they will leak like a sieve in the PNWet. Might get a sample for testing for an upcoming article, but think one rainy night will make for a negative review. Bueller? Quote
rbw1966 Posted February 20, 2004 Posted February 20, 2004 The tents have a specific application; i.e., fast and light climbing/hiking in relatively dry conditions. . . or snow. Quote
russ Posted February 20, 2004 Posted February 20, 2004 I think they will leak like a sieve in the PNWet. Might get a sample for testing for an upcoming article, but think one rainy night will make for a negative review. Wow, sounds like objective journalism Quote
Lambone Posted February 20, 2004 Posted February 20, 2004 You could give just about anything a negative review if using it for the wrong application... No doubt the Epic tent will leak in a rainstorm, but you wouldn't wear an Epic shell in a downpour either now would you... I'd be more concerned with durability. You know, when you actually use it for climbing mountains and such... Quote
willstrickland Posted February 20, 2004 Posted February 20, 2004 Umbrellas are not made from waterproof fabric Quote
Alpinfox Posted February 20, 2004 Posted February 20, 2004 Umbrellas are also not pressed against wet surfaces (ground/snow) all night and expected to keep water out. I'll be really curious to hear reports about these tents. The weight is incredible, but I anticipate durability and permeability issues with the tent floor (SILNYLON!!!). I think the EPIC will work well for tent walls since they are under some tension (umbrella principle) but what about where your sleeping bag touches the wall? Waiting expectantly for real-PNW-reviews. Quote
Jedi Posted February 20, 2004 Posted February 20, 2004 I think if I was worrying about sitting out rain storms, I would go with a totally waterproof tent. If you want to go ultralight and are willing to turn around when the weather turns foul, then one of these ultralight weight tents might be for you. They have their applications be are probably not an all around tent. just mt .02 cents Jedi Quote
ananda Posted February 20, 2004 Posted February 20, 2004 I have used the Lighthouse twice and love it. The first night was at about 5000' ft and it snowed a about a foot with probably 2-ft drifts around it. The second time was near 3700' and it snowed some but mostly rained (rain was dumping). The night it was dumping rain my friends in my ID MK III got soaked (not sure they paid enough attention to ventilate or what), anyway we in the Lighthouse stayed perfectly dry. The epic fabric appears waterproof to my eyes, water easily rolls off. I did seal all the seams very carefully, which took a lot of time. The real benefit is how small it packs down compared to a Bibler or ID tent. The only potential drawback I see is that with a thin fabric pay attention not to tear it, just like any superlight product (WM Flight, BD Megalite, etc). From my experience so far I have no reason to worry about a lack of waterproofness. The difference I do notice between the epic and Todd Tex/Tegral Tex is the Tex has a fuzzy surface which absorbs condensation and helps it to stick to inner tent wall where as the epic is smooth so frozen or unfrozen condensation tends to fall off the wall easier rather than build up. Why would BD sell a tent, claiming waterproof in all but the worst downpour, if it truly leaked like a seive? I guess I have some faith in the company and their desire to keep happy return customers. It weighs closer to 3.5 pounds than 3 as advertised. Finally, there are some other user reviews posted on the web in places: http://forums.backpacker.com/thread.jsp?forum=4&thread=33471&start=0&msRange=15 Quote
Alpinfox Posted February 21, 2004 Posted February 21, 2004 Hey Ananda, Welcome to cc.com and thanks for your review. So you didn't have any moisture coming through the walls where a sleeping bag/pack/whatever was touching it? And no water through the floor when camped on snow overnight? If so, I'm impressed and wonder if the silnylon floor is perhaps DWR coated and might loose some of its waterproofness over time? Your revised weight is AFTER seam-sealing, yes? Namaste Quote
Dru Posted February 21, 2004 Posted February 21, 2004 why do you need a tent anyway if the weather is good? you could use a tarp and bivi sac and it would be just as light and cheaper and probably more weatherproof too. Quote
Alpinfox Posted February 21, 2004 Posted February 21, 2004 why do you need a tent anyway if the weather is good? you could use a tarp and bivi sac and it would be just as light and cheaper and probably more weatherproof too. I own and use a golite Den tarp quite frequently for summer/below treeline camping, but for camping on snow/cold/questionable weather/alpine stuff, I prefer a tent. At 1.5lbs/person, I think this tent would be lighter than most tarp/bivy combos. Plus, it's a lot easier to spoon your partner or in a tent, eh!? For you Dru: Quote
Dru Posted February 21, 2004 Posted February 21, 2004 what good is a tent that isnt waterproof in questionable weather and wet snow? maybe its the famous one way tent which lets water in but not out. sort of like the goretex hot tub in reverse. Quote
ananda Posted February 21, 2004 Posted February 21, 2004 Alpinfox, No water came through the silnylon or epic fabric. In my experience with silnylon, with ID tarps and a megalight, it is waterproof and not at all breathable. The Silnylon is definitely more waterproof than the epic based on my assesment of fabric breathability. I'm not sure the exact technical nature of how either fabric works as a water barrier, but I think it's a silicone impregnation rather than a DWR. I'm sure you could find out doing a web search. Wild Things touts the benefit of epic over DWR in that with epic you clean it to restore its water repellency rather than add a chemical treatment. Not sure if the same applies to silnylon. My tent weight, 1543g (3lb 6 oz), is after seam seal. Though, I was very careful to avoid a sloppy seam seal job and only place enough to function and no more (I probably used less than half the supplied tube, but needed 3 syringes, due to the time consuming nature and me taking breaks). If you paid attention to their website, the older advertised weight (up to mid Jan 04) was less than 3 lbs or right at. After I questioned and commented to them on actual v. advertised weights they did adjust their marketing to reflect closer to the truth (perhaps my added seam seal is equal to 4-6 oz?). Also I think their packaged weight is just the tent and poles - nothing else. In any event, a user would probably want to end up seam sealing. Both nights I was out in the Lighthouse, conditions were anything but calm. I trust the epic to keep me dry as much as I trust Tegral Tex. One other thing, the Lighthouse has excellent ventilation. Quote
JoshK Posted February 23, 2004 Posted February 23, 2004 In my experience the ID and bibler tents actually stay quite a bit warmer due to the "thickness" of the tent material. I tend to think in any sort of weather where I would be wanting to carry a tent that is so light and "not really waterproof" I wouldn't bother with a tent at all. For more severe weather, i'm sorry, but I would much rather trust a sturdy Bibler or ID than this thing. My ID weighs just over 4lbs. To save about half a pound for less waterproofness, warmth, durability and peace of mind, it really doesn't make any sense to me. Again, if I am not exepcting reeally bad weather, then why bother with the tent? My partner and I did the ptarmigan traverse last June and dealth with rain/wind/wet snow for 2 1/2 days using nothing but ultralight bivies and a siltarp, for a whopping 2 1/2 lbs total weight. I think going with a sturdy tent for winter and bad weather use and a lightweight bivy+tarp solution for lower impact weather makes much more sense. Quote
marylou Posted March 8, 2004 Author Posted March 8, 2004 Ok, seems as though the sample supply and tents available at retail has mysteriously dried up for the time being. They are telling me I probably can't get a sample until mid April, and the tent's supposed to be out now. I suspect there is some kind of problem with the tent....anyone know what it is? If I can't get one of the BDs in time I might try and get one of the new Big Agnes Seed House tents, they look pretty cool too. Anyone tried one yet? 2 wall, sil nylon, freestanding, teeny, and about I dunno, three pounds eight ounces? PS. Alpinfox, I wouldn't worry about a Silnylon floor leaking through the fabric. It's as waterproof as it is (NOT)breathable. Quote
cracked Posted March 8, 2004 Posted March 8, 2004 Feathered Friends, Marmot, and even REI have them on their display floors. Go buy one. Quote
rollo Posted March 9, 2004 Posted March 9, 2004 I got one (lightouse) for my bday at backpackers supply in T-town. The wife is making me wait to open it tho. Quote
tomtom Posted March 10, 2004 Posted March 10, 2004 I think they will leak like a sieve in the PNWet. Might get a sample for testing for an upcoming article, but think one rainy night will make for a negative review. Why do you need to try the tent? You've already published your review. Maybe the folks at BD can read too. Quote
fern Posted March 17, 2004 Posted March 17, 2004 this thread has been trimmed. trimming is an inexact art. if you feel that super important content was removed feel free to re-enter it. please keep your discussions on topic. the topic is TENTS. if you want to complain about something other than TENTS do it elsewhere. thank you, please continue. Quote
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