TRs: Valuable or chestbeating fodder

[Thinker]

beat this

[mattp]

It was recently argued that nobody has ever trashed a beginners route report and that there is nothing negative in the culture of this board that would discourage less experienced climbers from posting here. I disagree.

 

We recently discussed the Mount Hood report where the guy noted he got a snowcat ride and was flamed for it, and I think we already discussed the several-page assault of Scott for reporting that he skied whatever it was - 70 degrees? - at Stevens Pass. Also, I look back at the reports of Chair Peak from this summer and I note that while I have deleted the snidest of comments, what is left still gives the very clear impression that a simple climb of The Tooth is not worthy. Every single thread contains references to "I soloed it" or "it is really a good climb in the winter" or "I climbed it in three hours car-to-car" or whatever. Similarly, somebody reports an attempt of Silver Star (a 150 foot class III scramble) and the response is "you should have run up Burgundy" (a 5.8 6-pitch rock climb). For the West Ridge of Forbidden, one of the most popular routes in the state, there are few reports but all of those from this season deal with car-to-car speed or solo climbing the route and at least one of them contains the response "great -- another chestbeater report on the West Ridge". Similarly, when someone asked about the Sitkum Glacier not long ago (another of the State's most popular climbs) somebody responsd that it is a stupid route and he would NEVER climb it again because it was so boring. For Mount Adams, somebody asked whether he needed to bring crampons on the south ridge and he got a lot of good information but he also had somebody say "totally unnecessary – there is absolutely no exposure at all." What if somebody is proud of climbing The Tooth and thinks they weren't a complete idiot to go the wrong way around the pinnacle south of Pinneapple Pass and somebody else might want to know where NOT to go? Or the guy who attempted Silver Star - was he supposed to feel proud of his attempt on a scramble route when he was told he should have "run up" a technical rock climb in stead? Wouldn't this kind of thing tend to discourage people who are not strong technical climbers from posting their trip reports or even asking for beta? Is this why we have not a single route report from the Beckey Route this season? One report of a climb of the Emmons Glacier? Neither of these are "trivial" routes, in my book, and I bet there are lots of people who would like to read about them.

 

[Jopa]

mattp said:

Is this why we have not a single route report from the Beckey Route this season?

 

Actually, there was one (CBS?), and the climber in the picture was flamed for "sewing it up".

[Dru]

ah yes. the TR is posted on a public forum but we are told only some comments are allowed to be made.

 

maybe if there was a forum called "Shitty TRs that no one can ever respond to" people could post the bad ones there without the FEAR of RIDICULE that is PREVENTING SO MANY FROM WRITING

 

I dont think fear of the comments Matt referred to stopped any of those people from posting

 

Actually I take it back about the Walk in the Freezer cuz Distel's mushroom trip and Glacier's parody or elaboration of Mike Layton's gym TR were better.

 

This board would be a lot better place if more people lead by example and spent less time being sociologically correct and telling other people how to behave.

[ScottP]

"This board would be a lot better place if more people lead by example"

Will you begin anytime soon? Lead by example Dru. At least reduce the snide, bullshit posts like the one above. No tr is shitty to the one who posted it. If it doesn't float your boat, stop reading it. It's an open forum. People post because they feel a kinship with others who do the same as them and they want to share the cool feeling they get from whatever climbing they do. "Shitty tr that no one can respond to" smacks of elitism that I would hope you would be above.

 

[Alpinfox]

 

Matt,

I believe I am the party responsible for the comments about the Sitkum route on GP that you refered to in your post, though I can't find the thread now. I can see that my negativity might discourage someone from writing a TR about the route and for that I am sorry. However, that was not my intention. My intention was to convince people that Frostbite Ridge is a much better route and isn't very difficult and that they should do it instead.

 

I value reading TRs of easy/moderate routes, especially if they are well written, and this website should be a forum for climbers of all ability levels.

 

In the future I will try not to make disparaging comments (intended or not) about TRs of easy/moderate routes. I hope that helps increase the amount of TRs we see around here.

 

 

[Necronomicon]

I think we need:

 

More bullshit.

More snide comments.

No tolerance for shitty chestbeat TRs about weak ass climbs.

 

I agree with Dru's point about this being a public forum. A protion of the general public takes great pleasure in ripping into people's shitty chestbeat TRs.

 

If you want a pat on the back for climbing the Tooth, again, go tell your Mom. I'm sure she'll be impressed.

[mattp]

Actually, Mr. Fox, I think someobody else made a similar point to yours but with much more vinegar in their tone. The route reports forums are intended to be a place to discuss (among other things) what we like/don't like about climbs in our region - and I don't think a comment such as that one would be much of a problem if offered in proper context or with a modicum of respect for the initial poster. I don't remember the exact thread, though, and I'm sure opinions would vary as to whether that one or any other comment in any route reports thread was good or bad. My point is not that yours (if it was yours) or any other of the responses that I described was out of line -- I was making a comment on the general atmosphere.

[chelle]

Dru (and anyone else who loves to just post b.s. and dis on everyone else)-

 

do you get away with your attitude in your everyday life? Is this how you interact with your family and co-workers? How about people you call close friends? I hope not. If you don't behave the way you do on this board in all aspects of you life, I'd like to know why you reserve your negative arrogant attitude for this board? Were you the school yard bully back in elementary school too?

 

While this is a virtual community, it is a community and a lot of us spend several hours a week hanging out talking with each other via the board. Lately there has been very little talk about climbing and most halfway decent discussions we get started quickly get trashed by you or one of the other avatars that behaves fairly negatively or someone who is in a bad mood that day.

 

Honestly, I worry that it brings down the quality of the content on the board and believe the negativity DOES discourage people from posting here. Whether it is a TR, a request for beta, or a cool thing from their life they want to share or challenge us to think about.

 

What do you get out of criticizing someone else's writing style or grammar or spelling? Does it make you feel better about yourself? Or are you really a closet English teacher who hasn't bothered to change professions?

 

As a community cc.com has had some really great face-to-face get togethers in the past few months. My personal hope was that it would help cut down on some of the b.s. and pettyness on the site, and also bring people out of the woodwork and encourage them to participate. cc.com is a great site most of the time, and I have met a lot of really cool people who I now call friends.

 

I was talking to another cc.com poster a few weeks ago after a slide show. We saw a lot of other cc.comer's at the show. More than half the room was filled with people that were fit and looked like they were more than casual gapers, and quite a few seemed to know eachother. We were wondering who they were. Where did they get to know eachother? Do they hang out on cc.com? I have no idea. There is a fairly large climbing community in the NW. I bet some of them post or lurk on this board, some people have probably checked it out and thought it pretty juvenile and stay away. Where are the rest?

 

I used to almost always ask people if they posted on this board when I met them at the crags or in the mountains. I realized that I don't do that anymore. I still don't have an answer to that one, but sometimes I'm a little embarrased that I spend so much time here...particularly when the board is in one of its more juvenile or nasty periods.

[cracked]

ehmmic said:

sometimes I'm a little embarrased that I spend so much time here...particularly when the board is in one of its more juvenile or nasty periods.

 

Yep, ditto.

[Dru]

ScottP said:

"This board would be a lot better place if more people lead by example"

Will you begin anytime soon? Lead by example Dru. At least reduce the snide, bullshit posts like the one above. No tr is shitty to the one who posted it. If it doesn't float your boat, stop reading it. It's an open forum. People post because they feel a kinship with others who do the same as them and they want to share the cool feeling they get from whatever climbing they do. "Shitty tr that no one can respond to" smacks of elitism that I would hope you would be above.

 

ah yes another person practicing what they preach

[Dru]

ehmmic said:

Dru (and anyone else who loves to just post b.s. and dis on everyone else)-

 

do you get away with your attitude in your everyday life? Is this how you interact with your family and co-workers? How about people you call close friends? I hope not. If you don't behave the way you do on this board in all aspects of you life, I'd like to know why you reserve your negative arrogant attitude for this board? Were you the school yard bully back in elementary school too?

 

While this is a virtual community, it is a community and a lot of us spend several hours a week hanging out talking with each other via the board. Lately there has been very little talk about climbing and most halfway decent discussions we get started quickly get trashed by you or one of the other avatars that behaves fairly negatively or someone who is in a bad mood that day.

 

Honestly, I worry that it brings down the quality of the content on the board and believe the negativity DOES discourage people from posting here. Whether it is a TR, a request for beta, or a cool thing from their life they want to share or challenge us to think about.

 

What do you get out of criticizing someone else's writing style or grammar or spelling? Does it make you feel better about yourself? Or are you really a closet English teacher who hasn't bothered to change professions?

 

As a community cc.com has had some really great face-to-face get togethers in the past few months. My personal hope was that it would help cut down on some of the b.s. and pettyness on the site, and also bring people out of the woodwork and encourage them to participate. cc.com is a great site most of the time, and I have met a lot of really cool people who I now call friends.

 

I was talking to another cc.com poster a few weeks ago after a slide show. We saw a lot of other cc.comer's at the show. More than half the room was filled with people that were fit and looked like they were more than casual gapers, and quite a few seemed to know eachother. We were wondering who they were. Where did they get to know eachother? Do they hang out on cc.com? I have no idea. There is a fairly large climbing community in the NW. I bet some of them post or lurk on this board, some people have probably checked it out and thought it pretty juvenile and stay away. Where are the rest?

 

I used to almost always ask people if they posted on this board when I met them at the crags or in the mountains. I realized that I don't do that anymore. I still don't have an answer to that one, but sometimes I'm a little embarrased that I spend so much time here...particularly when the board is in one of its more juvenile or nasty periods.

 

hey michelle

you are describing a person i don't recognize. what a strange view you have of me.

 

let's see the last TR I flamed was hmmm... dberdinka for nailing a free and clean route and before that - probably wayne for what i considered to be ruining colin's TR with some chest thumping.damn, i'm a vicious, evil person

 

as far as i can tell the only person i have ever flamed for spelling was harpell for teh posts taht nveer sepll porperly -cheif

 

i guess you see all those spelling flames and never see the posts where i say to someone's TR or welcome a new poster instead of flaming them for say, having the temerity to say they aint going to show up at some dive of a bar

 

why don't you try and show some evidence to back up your claims if you think i'm that bad? or it may be that you will come up short and then apologize to me

 

i am always willing to admit i was wrong if anyone can show me i have done something i don't think was right, and i will issue an apology and retract any statements in the principled manner alpinfox did, if they are pointed out to me

 

please do not attempt to bring up deliberate and obvious trolling like me asking a worked up and ethic-spewing Lambone how many pins he took on his glacier peak epic in the strickland nailing post. i like trolling and im not going to apologize for it.

 

 

edit - oh wait i also asked hardman polish bob why he had to retreat up to the summit when attempting to descend australian gully and then go down SE ridge on Joffre

Edited November 14, 2003 by Dru

[burgersling]

You need pins on Glacier Peak

[cracked]

Dru, admit it, you very, very rarely post anything serious. Your posts are usually either stupid, irrelevant, sarcastic, or just plain annoying. Yeah, now you'll respond with "pot calling the kettle black ". But that isn't even true. I don't spray exclusively, while you do.

[scott_harpell]

harpell for teh posts taht nveer sepll porperly -cheif

 

waht are yuo talkign abuot man?

[Dru]

cracked said:

Dru, admit it, you very, very rarely post anything serious. Your posts are usually either stupid, irrelevant, sarcastic, or just plain annoying. Yeah, now you'll respond with "pot calling the kettle black ". But that isn't even true. I don't spray exclusively, while you do.

 

i have provided more beta today than you have

[scott_harpell]

cracked said:

Dru, admit it, you very, very rarely post anything serious. Your posts are usually either stupid, irrelevant, sarcastic, or just plain annoying. Yeah, now you'll respond with "pot calling the kettle black ". But that isn't even true. I don't spray exclusively, while you do.

 

oh sheesh. dru has put up climbing related stuff... but mabe you should try here genius.

[burgersling]

 

 

 

[Dru]

Burgersling - do you ever run into Alpinfox at Mom's house

[burgersling]

I did his mamma.

[ScottP]

"ah yes another person practicing what they preach"

Hey, I'm no saint, but I've also never called any tr on this site "shitty", nor made such a blanket statement. The tone of your collective 9999+ posts over the years has been largely "either stupid, irrelevant, sarcastic, or just plain annoying." Your signal to noise ratio is definately leaning toward noise. To your credit, there have been some pretty cool items generated from your direction, but in the end I generally pass over the Hello Kitty icon, because I don't care to wade through the majority.

 

 

Harpell, this isn't bivouac.com. A different beast entirely.

 

[scott_harpell]

Harpell, this isn't bivouac.com. A different beast entirely.

 

exactly.

[Dru]

Like any site - this site has a range of quality. Some is good some is bad. Some of the TRs posted here are very good. Some are just plain lame.

 

A forum in which people can post TR's without recieving comments would invariably become a dumping ground for crap if only because TR's that the author thought were any good would appear in a forum where they could recieve praise.

 

It is wrong to uniformly praise even things of low quality. It makes the good seem less good to praise the bad equally.

 

Since many people here seem to lack the reading comprehension of, say, Ray Borbon - who is a master at it IMHO - - where did I say that all beginner TR's are bad? Ans: no where. Where did I say that all TRs of popular destinations are bad - nowhere. Where did I say that not every TR is good - right here. Where did I say that I do not enjoy poorly written TR's, of whomever, describing whatever - right here. If RuMR wrote some TR about blah blah sent 5.13 and it sucked I'd be among the first to tell him so. When someone writes a TR of their first lead and they write it well - I tell them so with a

 

So - ScottP and Michelle and Cracked - if you guys want to see TR's

 

WHY DONT YOU WRITE SOME MORE INSTEAD OF TELLING OTHERS HOW TO RESPOND TO THEM? and no photos of posing on a tight toprope please cracked!

 

I write a bunch of TRs - they are on this site - if you think they suck why don't you criticize them?

[Alpinfox]

Dru said:

Burgersling - do you ever run into Alpinfox at Mom's house

 

A brief aside from this stimulating and insightful thread...

 

Boogersling has my location and TTT has my autosig! What the hell is going on here! You all want to be ME is that it!?!?!?

 

Well TOO BAD! You can't be me!

 

I AM THE ONE AND ONLY ALPINFOX!!!

 

OOOOHHH UH AAHAHHAH!!!!

 

 

 

as you were.

[ScottP]

scott_harpell said:

Harpell, this isn't bivouac.com. A different beast entirely.

 

exactly.

 

So start a thread about what a cool guy Drew is at bivouac.com cuz we aren't talking about that.