nolanr Posted March 5, 2002 Share Posted March 5, 2002 Okay, I might be inviting a flame fest here, but I'm going to risk it. We didn't have a guide book w/ us, but according to my buddy I climbed w/ on Sunday, we did Sabre (5.4?), then a testicle shriveling step-across move and onto pitch 2 of Canary (5.8?). Does anybody else think that's a pretty stiff 5.8? Lucky for me I led the first pitch so I got to follow on that second part. After that step across when you get onto the face, there isn't a whole lot in the way of holds for several feet. That would've been a bitch to lead, it wasn't a walk in the park seconding. 5.8 my ass I say. Okay old school hardmen, spray on about how you soloed it blindfolded or something... [ 03-04-2002: Message edited by: nolanr ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin Posted March 5, 2002 Share Posted March 5, 2002 If any part of canary is harder than 5.8 I would say its the first pitch, and even that is pretty consistant with Leavenworth standards. For a hard 5.8 try South Face on jello tower. As for the step across on the second pitch of canary, it is pretty challenging if you step around the corner and go straight up. However, if you take a step down and left it isn't too bad. I only state these specifics cause I just climbed it two days ago so its fresh in my mind. Sure was a fabulous weekend for climbing at leavenworth, though, wasn't it!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nolanr Posted March 5, 2002 Author Share Posted March 5, 2002 Sure was. I can't believe there weren't more people out there. Didn't look like anyone was climbing along Icicle Canyon on Sat., and on Sun. we were the only ones on Castle Rock. While my buddy took his time working out some of the moves on the second pitch, I was basking in the sunshine on the belay ledge working on a tan (or burn?). Spring has sprung already, at least on the east side of the mountains. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Posted March 5, 2002 Share Posted March 5, 2002 actually, the 2nd pitch is supposed to be 5.7! I agree, on the 1st pitch lies the sandbag. You gotta remember, when most of the climbs were put up at castle, 5.9 was todays 5.14. So it was dry, huh? I'll be there in the next couple of days for sure! (if the weather holds up) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Yount Posted March 5, 2002 Share Posted March 5, 2002 Great close-up picture of that traverse on page 217 of Rock Climbing Washington, 1999 by Jeff Smoot. I can't find it now, but I saw South Face published at 10A. A 5.9? Sure. But 10A? It wasn't in Travelers Guide, 1999 and obviously wasn't in Washington Rock, 1982. It was published in some guidebook...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Szyjakowski Posted March 5, 2002 Share Posted March 5, 2002 definetly agree with kevin's response--first pitch a little stiff but that is most likely due to how long the climb has been ascended===greasy boot rubber sliming the granitic crystals; look at Angel crack---how many people send it in their mt boots like the pic in Viktor's guidebook of Stanley (?is that right?) (I believe in the 50's??)---really not many people even boulder all the way today, I guess unless they have all those fancy crashpads they might now...but back to canary the second pitch is classic 5.7-8 air...got to love it, just make sure your belayer aint going anywhere. if scared pound a few South face of jello tower definitely not 10a...5.9a maybe [ 03-04-2002: Message edited by: Szyjakowski ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted March 5, 2002 Share Posted March 5, 2002 first pitch felt hard for 5.8, second pitch right on 5.8, agree you gotta traverse low around to the left notgo straight up. all said it was not harder than the 5.8 south ridge of gimli and about the same as minutia (aka orphan) or worlds toughest milkman (both now given 5.9 in the McLane Soft Squamish Grading System ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 5, 2002 Share Posted March 5, 2002 If you like ratings like that you should check out some of the routes on Givler's Dome. Difficult routes. Sport monkeys would do well on them bolted climbs. Just be aware they are runout slabs but good. Also the Pinnacles are the same way with bolted routes. Oh yeah Canary pitch one is hard 5.8d but not 5.9. Go lead the offwidth around the corner called Damnation Crack and then tell me there is no difference in the two ratings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roger_johnson Posted March 5, 2002 Share Posted March 5, 2002 Officespacey, Where did you come up with 5.8d? That sounds like sport talk. Canary was done by Becky, Collins and Claunch in the 50s, pre sub catagories. Becky rates it 5.7. The first pitch is steep but has sharp holds and edges- 5.7. The second pitch starts with an exposed step down with good hands and then goes around the corner to a less steep face with rounded knobs, edges and scoops. Protected by bolts it goes at 5.7. It probably feels more difficult because the bolts are not every two feet. I have done Canary many times and it is always fun and seems consistant with Lworth ratings. 5.7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted March 5, 2002 Share Posted March 5, 2002 i believe Damnation Crack used to be rated 5.8. So did Outer Space (5.8+). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 5, 2002 Share Posted March 5, 2002 quote: Originally posted by roger johnson: Officespacey,Where did you come up with 5.8d? That sounds like sport talk. Canary was done by Becky, Collins and Claunch in the 50s, pre sub catagories. Becky rates it 5.7. The first pitch is steep but has sharp holds and edges- 5.7. The second pitch starts with an exposed step down with good hands and then goes around the corner to a less steep face with rounded knobs, edges and scoops. Protected by bolts it goes at 5.7. It probably feels more difficult because the bolts are not every two feet. I have done Canary many times and it is always fun and seems consistant with Lworth ratings. 5.7 5.8d is a joke. I suppose you can rate it 5.7. Either way my point is that it is not 5.9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 5, 2002 Share Posted March 5, 2002 quote: Originally posted by mattp: i believe Damnation Crack used to be rated 5.8. So did Outer Space (5.8+). Yeah I think that is common knowledge. You are missing the point. Which is Canary is not 5.9. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted March 5, 2002 Share Posted March 5, 2002 Just which point did I miss? I think the point here is that Leavenworth ratings used to be, and to some extent still are, stiff compared to many other areas. And no, I don't think Canary is 5.9. But that second pitch must be 5.7d, eh Roger? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted March 5, 2002 Share Posted March 5, 2002 quote: Originally posted by roger johnson: Officespacey,Where did you come up with 5.8d? That sounds like sport talk. Canary was done by Becky, Collins and Claunch in the 50s, pre sub catagories. Becky rates it 5.7. The first pitch is steep but has sharp holds and edges- 5.7. The second pitch starts with an exposed step down with good hands and then goes around the corner to a less steep face with rounded knobs, edges and scoops. Protected by bolts it goes at 5.7. It probably feels more difficult because the bolts are not every two feet. I have done Canary many times and it is always fun and seems consistant with Lworth ratings. 5.7 The FFA of Canary was made by Canadian, Hank Mather. That guy (who is still alive) is like the all-time secret hardman of the 50's and 60's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roger_johnson Posted March 5, 2002 Share Posted March 5, 2002 OS,Sorry I jumped on that. Actually I recall calling something 5.4c onetime in the name of humor. You are right: not 5.9. I really don't like old rts. rating to be inflated or deflated for that matter, by newcomers who have little experience for making the new ratings claims. I don't see Damnation as an off-width, I climb it as a lieback. Angel has gotten more difficult with the grease, rubber and rounding of edges. It could be climbed several different ways in mtn. boots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 5, 2002 Share Posted March 5, 2002 Ok we have a consensus canary is now 5.4c with Damnation being a nice layback? How about above the first 35 feet where it gets wide? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimL Posted March 5, 2002 Share Posted March 5, 2002 Good topic. I would have to say as exciting as Canary is both pitches are Leavenworth 5.8. Although I pity the fool who blows the first moves and ends up below the roof on the 2ndpitch. It seems to me the topic revolves around grade inflation/ego gratification of climbing routes. For instance, if Angel Crack was rated 5.9 by the hard men that put it up, then it should stay 5.9. Same with Outer Space and Damnation Crack. I think they should stay at their original ratings. [ 03-05-2002: Message edited by: TimL ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottP Posted March 5, 2002 Share Posted March 5, 2002 quote: Originally posted by TimL: Good topic. I would have to say as exciting as Canary is both pitches are Leavenworth 5.8. Although I pity the fool who blows the first moves and ends up below the roof on the 2ndpitch. It seems to me the topic revolves around grade inflation/ego gratification of climbing routes. For instance, if Angel Crack was rated 5.9 by the hard men that put it up, then it should stay 5.9. Same with Outer Space and Damnation Crack. I think they should stay at their original ratings.[ 03-05-2002: Message edited by: TimL ] When the physical nature of a route changes, the rating can change. Princely Ambitions at Index is a good example. Without the block it is definately harder than when the block was there. With Angel, the rock has been changed, albeit only the texture. I believe that this change warrants a change in rating because the change in texture has made it harder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 5, 2002 Share Posted March 5, 2002 Yes but don't you think Roger has climbed it before the "Physical Change" as well as after? I think if he states it is a certain rating it just might be. Maybe Roger is old school sandbagging us? Mattp,I don't beleive most or any majority of ratings there are stiff. I believe most of them are accurate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted March 5, 2002 Share Posted March 5, 2002 quote: Originally posted by OfficeSpace: ...Roger has climbed it before the "Physical Change" as well as after? Roger caused the physical change Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 5, 2002 Share Posted March 5, 2002 Shame on you Roger. You climbed Canary so many times and wired it! Now it is greasy yet easy for you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted March 5, 2002 Share Posted March 5, 2002 Canary is a great climb for the grade. The beginning of the 2nd pitch is very "heady" and make you think twice before stepping out. Love it! Something worth doing again and again! I think that would be a 5.8 anywhere, not just 11worth. Once I sat at the 2nd belay and watched some guy try the exit moves on the 1st pitch 3 times! Each time he'd sneak a peak of the ledge, totally miss the bomber holds, grease back and fall on that piton. Yowza! I'd hate to pull that pin out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted March 5, 2002 Share Posted March 5, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Matt: Canary is a great climb for the grade. The beginning of the 2nd pitch is very "heady" and make you think twice before stepping out. Love it! Something worth doing again and again! I think that would be a 5.8 anywhere, not just 11worth. Once I sat at the 2nd belay and watched some guy try the exit moves on the 1st pitch 3 times! Each time he'd sneak a peak of the ledge, totally miss the bomber holds, grease back and fall on that piton. Yowza! I'd hate to pull that pin out! If you had a Laser Pointer with you you could have indicated to him the proper location of the holds. Metolius sells a $20 "redpoint laser" for just this purpose Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik Posted March 5, 2002 Share Posted March 5, 2002 i always thought that canary was classic 5.fun++ with a little heady challenge thrown in for good measure..... but as always all grades are subjective from person to person, area to area.......i have never really nitced the huge differences from areas to areas...but then again i am trying on focusing on the climb and not the numbers.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chucK Posted March 5, 2002 Share Posted March 5, 2002 I will throw in my pontifications: Damnation is 5.9, fist-crack, layback, chimney. No offwidth as I remember. Haven't climbed Canary since I was way green. I thought that last move (on p1) was hard! I wish I had Matt there with his laser pointer. Crack of Doom is cool but too short, 10a- . Sure is fun to leave your stuff at the base of Damnation/Angel crack so you can get some great entertainment when packing up afterward. What about Century? You guys like that one? I remember that being fun.Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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