Peter_Puget Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 It's no secret that I have argued with Dwayner quite a bit on this site I think we started climbign about the same time and I remember reading old chouinard catologs as if they were the gospel. The attached link is a fun read if only to look at old stuff and prices. It also has a great article on clean climbing that is worth a read and my guess is Dwayner would endorse it too. Link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lI1|1! Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 thanks for posting. i just wasted about an hour at work. i'd heard about the catalog but had never actually read it. i found the influence british ethics really interesting, and how the brits had different concerns from the continentals. i wonder if this plays itself out in our modern use of the term "french free". but what would john long say about fig 7 on p. 22? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 I was thinking of Marko when they referred to the "natural climber". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 Actually, I think Dwayner would have written "HAPPY YOM KIPPUR" today However would we remember all these holidays without the handy pocket calendar? For instance, Thursday, Oct 16 is 'National Boss Day' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al_Pine Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 lI1|1! said: but what would john long say about fig 7 on p. 22? I dunno. What would he say? Is there something wrong with this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 Don't get them started, Al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracked Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 It only doubles the load on the upper 'chock'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al_Pine Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 Only for a downward pull. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracked Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 Al_Pine said: Only for a downward pull. When I fall off, I typically fall down. Don't know about you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 OK - now you've done it. I don't think it will double the load on the upper chock because there will be considerable friction where the cords rub against each other so it won't be a perfect pulley effect. More worriesome is that it may not keep the lower one in place unless it is constantly loaded in a more or less downward direction, so if you lead past it and the rope running through the carabiner causes the anchor point to raise up and drop down a little bit, well ... or if any pull during a fall comes from varying different directions because the rope whips around a corner or if a carabiner vibrates ... or if you are using it for an anchor instead of just a piece of pro and you wiggle around scratching your butt at the belay ... it may fail althogether; whereas (if both pieces are good) it could be an omnidirectional if they were tied together. Having said that, I would set a pair of nuts this way in certain situations where I thought the upper was good for a downward but not much of an outward pull. Now let's hear how you're not wrong but I am, and then we can discuss fall factors and dynamic belay technique and we'll complete the discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 Wouldn't you want to do that the other way around, so you aren't doubling the load on the upper piece if you fall on it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 Jon, you would almost certainly see the bottom piece fall out pretty quickly if you did it "the other way around" if I understand what you are saying correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al_Pine Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 cracked said: Al_Pine said: Only for a downward pull. When I fall off, I typically fall down. Don't know about you. Reminder, if ever climbing with "Cracked", check out his belay anchor before leading up the second pitch, unless of course, he's like 250 lbs. I think the force multiplier is only about 1.67. Isn't anybody worried about using only double fisherman's on those pieces instead of triple? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 Al_Pine said: cracked said: Al_Pine said: Only for a downward pull. When I fall off, I typically fall down. Don't know about you. Reminder, if ever climbing with "Cracked", check out his belay anchor before leading up the second pitch, unless of course, he's like 250 lbs. I think the force multiplier is only about 1.67. Isn't anybody worried about using only double fisherman's on those pieces instead of triple? shit, the guy only leads 1/2 pitch sport routes and cracks with bolted belays - i mean he only bought his first camalots last week do you think he even knows how to build a gear anchor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 And if the bottom piece falls out as shown what happens? Obviously this is purely dependant upon how it's being used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmberBuxom Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 problems with this shit: 1) cord slung nuts 2) shot tails on the double overhand knots 3) knee length sling job 4) stupid lack of connection that guarantees that if one piece fails then both will Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lI1|1! Posted October 7, 2003 Share Posted October 7, 2003 i was just going to say amber's point #4 in a john long sort of way but it's not important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al_Pine Posted October 7, 2003 Share Posted October 7, 2003 I think anti-redundant pieces is the winning critique, but keep 'em coming! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracked Posted October 7, 2003 Share Posted October 7, 2003 Al_Pine said: cracked said: Al_Pine said: Only for a downward pull. When I fall off, I typically fall down. Don't know about you. Reminder, if ever climbing with "Cracked", check out his belay anchor before leading up the second pitch, unless of course, he's like 250 lbs. Good guess, I'm right around 200. I think the force multiplier is only about 1.67. No, it's 2, discounting friction. And the friction is dependent on load, as anyone who has taken HS physics could figure out. Isn't anybody worried about using only double fisherman's on those pieces instead of triple? No, I think the 9mm 'cord' gives enough friction that triple fishermans would be overkill. Dru, you scrawny Canadian bitch-man, kiss my . I've been climbing with other peoples' gear for quite a while now. You're just jealous that a teenage sport climber leads harder trad than you. Oh, and liebacking is aid, right? What's next? Crampons are aid? The best setup when using two nuts in opposition is to keep the slings short and use clove hitches to keep the two in opposition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted October 7, 2003 Share Posted October 7, 2003 A second vote for using clove hitches to keep the nuts in opposition.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted October 7, 2003 Share Posted October 7, 2003 just place a tri cam instead of those two hexes, duh! cracked, buddy, i know you're jealous of me.... green becomes you lay it out on the line how many multipitch routes you've done and how many gear anchors you've actually belayed off of, huh? meanwhile i will enjoy the fact that my years of experience actually put me over the LEGAL DRINKING AGE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sk Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 Dru said: just place a tri cam instead of those two hexes, duh! cracked, buddy, i know you're jealous of me.... green becomes you lay it out on the line how many multipitch routes you've done and how many gear anchors you've actually belayed off of, huh? meanwhile i will enjoy the fact that my years of experience actually put me over the LEGAL DRINKING AGE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 Settle this like men at the 1st Inaugural Distel32 Bouldering Tour. Contestants will attempt to construct an equalized, multidirectional gear anchor while locking off on a sick sloper/toe-cam/knee-scum prob... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 JayB said: Settle this like men at the 1st Inaugural Distel32 Bouldering Tour. Contestants will attempt to construct an equalized, multidirectional gear anchor while locking off on a sick sloper/toe-cam/knee-scum prob... can i just be drunk and attempt the feat? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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