Cordellette size?

[David Yount]

You can purchase pre-cut and pre-tied or pre-sewn cordelettes and webolettes, you can also make your own.

Cordelettes are made with round form factor cords, lines, ropes - 7mm nylon or polyester, 6mm nylon or polyester, 5.5mm technora/polyester or spectra-nylon/nylon or spectra-kevlar/polyester or vectran/nylon.

Webolettes are made with relatively flat from factor tubular webbing - 12mm or 16mm or 17mm spectra/nylon.

In 2001 catalog Sterling rates their own 7mm nylon accessory cord at 3210lb but Black Diamond's limited tests measured a bit less than 3000lb; tests observed 8% less than catalog values. In the 2001 catalog Sterling rates their own 6mm nylon accessory cord at 2630lb, so if we use the same 8% decrease translating from catalog value to theoretical observed value 6mm cord would be about 2400lb.

The loop strength in BD's test for Sterling's 7mm nylon cord was a bit over 5000lb. This value is about 14% less than twice the single strand observed strength. If we use the same 14% decrease translating from expected loop strength to theoretical observed loop strength the 6mm cord would be about 4100lb.

From the Bending Flex Cycle Test the 7mm nylon cord showed no drop in strength and it is not challenging to assume the 6mm nylon cord would behave identically with no drop in strength.

Thus, the original single strand strength of Sterling 6mm nylon accessory cord of 2400lb (assuming they over rated their 6mm to the same percentage that they over rated their 7mm) would remain at 2400lb after significant use and the loop strength would remain at 4100lb. This single strand strength is greater than the single strand strength of any of the 5.5mm cords after flexing, making 6mm nylon cord stronger for cordelettes than 5.5mm high tech cords. This loop strength is greater than the strength of either sewn eyes on Mountain Tools Web-o-lette, making 6mm nylon cord stronger for cordelettes than the Web-o-lette.

The 6mm nylon cord might not fail the 5 drops tests and if it did, it seems like it would fail only on the last drop. But this test is equivalent to not using a cordelette as an equalized anchor matrix (as per John Longs - Climbing Anchors) but as a single loop. So as long as you even pretend to equalize 2 pieces or more, the resulting 6mm nylon cordelette would not fail even after 5 maximum force lead falls.

And you can purchase accessory lines in polyester rather than nylon, and polyester is significantly stronger (a tad heavier too though).

I used to use 7mm nylon cords for cordelettes. Now I use 6mm nylon and also 5.5mm high tech lines. I used to use 19-feet but often-enough-to-be-annoying the resulting 3 legs or 4 legs were not long enough to clip my anchor pro. I moved up to 25-feet and it's made me happy. I figure the weight I'm saving by not lugging 7mm makes an allowance for a longer loop of 6mm.

haireball has got the right idea.

If I liked the webolette idea, but I don't, I would use 15-feet of bulk supertape, tie overhand-on-a-bight at each end and then tack the two knots' tails with a few hand stitches and since this stuff is darned slippery I'd tack on the other side of the knot too. But 6mm nylon or polyester cord is far far cheaper to cut and leave for rap anchors…. And 5.5mm cord just doesn't cut easy and quick in the field… besides… it's the most expensive. What do you leave, Dru?

Notes: 5.5mm vectran-core with nylon-sheath, made by Sterling, is the worst choice by far for cordelettes (or slinging hexes) as per Black Diamond's very limited tests. It failed on the first test, it held zero falls. Whereas, Maxim 5.5mm Spectra-A held 5 falls.

5mm and 4mm nylon cords nearly the same by Sterling 2001 Catalog at 1144lb and 1034lb, giving an estimated theoretical loop strength of about 1650lb which is far far too weak to sustain a direct load from a nice lead whipper on an old stiff rope

[David Yount]

"I would like to hear how you guys "bundle" up this mass of cord/webbing in a convenient, easy to get out again manner. "

Electrician's Braid, knitter's crochet, successive slip knots, whatever you want to call it.

My 24-foot cordelette (a 12-foot loop), grab and hold the joining knot (double grapevine, double fishermans, opposed double overhands, whatever you want to call it)and slide to the far end, put the two 'ends' together folding the original length in half.

Make a small loop next to the joining knot (in all 4 strands), push a bight through the loop, push another bight through the first bight, and so on... until you have only a few inches left, slip the end through the last bight.

Clip the end and the beginning. Total length 10-inches, making it smaller than the 'overhand' method and quicker than the 'coil' method, and much faster to deploy than both.

[David_Parker]

I would like to hear how you guys "bundle" up this mass of cord/webbing in a convenient, easy to get out again manner. Also, in a 2 point anchor (2 ice screws) does anyone see a problem in clipping both loops of the webolette into one piece, the other loop into the other, then tie the master knot and clip that?

For those who are wondering how a webolette works,I found this including a diagram at:

http://www.geocities.com/pipeline/rapids/2748/gearreviews.htm

Webolettes - Everyone knows that a cordolette is the best way to equalize 3 pieces of gear for a belay anchor (as long as the direction of load is constant.) So why don't you see climbers carrying them on a regular basis? I think it's because of the fact that a cordolette is 18-20' of gangly cord and is not particularly handy to rack, at least for everyday use. Behold the webolette. This is not just a cordolette tied from webbing instead of cord. It is 10' of spectra with a runner strength sewn loop on each end. Here's how it works… Clip each end loop to separate pieces of gear. Then take a bite of the remaining webbing near the center of the webolotte and clip it to the third piece of gear like you would with a bite of cordolette. Clip a biner into the 2 loops hanging down as you would the 3 loops of a cordolette, pull in the direction of the anticipated load, and tie a figure eight master knot. Notice that because of the 2 sewn loops in the webolette, there are 4 strands coming down from the 3 pieces of gear as opposed to 6 with a cordolette. This makes the system simpler and results in less clutter at the belay but achieves the same equalization as a cordolette. After being loaded, the master knot unties easily because spectra is naturally more slippery. Important: It is absolutely imperative that you tie a proper master knot! If you don't, 1 of the 3 pieces could fail and cause the whole system to fail! Finally, the webolette is easy to rack because there is half as much material and the spectra is incredibly light. If you're a fan of spectra slings, you'll love the webolette. Be sure to know how to use it before trying it.

Some climbers like carrying a cordolette because it is good prusik material for rescue situations. A webolette works well here too, just use a klemheist knot with one of the sewn loops instead of a prusik. The only drawback to the webolette is that it does not function as a giant sling for slinging big boulders or horns like a cordolette will. It does function however as a huge 10' runner.

[willstrickland]

quote:

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Originally posted by David Parker:

I would like to hear how you guys "bundle" up this mass of cord/webbing in a convenient, easy to get out again manner.

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I take the cordelette from one end of the loop, fold it back and forth in 8" to 10" pieces (usually about three times, just think of it like butterfly coiling a rope)until about half the cord is in the bundle, then start wrapping the remainder tightly around the bundle. If you fold it right, you'll just finish with the remaining cordage as you reach the top of the bundle. Take the end, pass it through the set of ends at the top of the bundle, and clip all those to the locker you use on the master point. You end up with a package that looks sort of like a miniature butterfly coiled rope.

[Matt_Anderson]

"I would like to hear how you guys "bundle" up this mass of cord/webbing in a convenient, easy to get out again manner. "

Take the cordellette, totally splayed out and double it up, leaving the total two strands thick and decreasing the total size of the loops by half. Repeat until it is a bout 20 inches long, then tie an overhand not and clip a biner into one end.

Fast and easy.

[Elvis]

quote:

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Originally posted by Idea Guy:

"I would like to hear how you guys "bundle" up this mass of cord/webbing in a convenient, easy to get out again manner. "

Electrician's Braid, knitter's crochet, successive slip knots, whatever you want to call it.

My 24-foot cordelette (a 12-foot loop), grab and hold the joining knot (double grapevine, double fishermans, opposed double overhands, whatever you want to call it)and slide to the far end, put the two 'ends' together folding the original length in half.

Make a small loop next to the joining knot (in all 4 strands), push a bight through the loop, push another bight through the first bight, and so on... until you have only a few inches left, slip the end through the last bight.

Clip the end and the beginning. Total length 10-inches, making it smaller than the 'overhand' method and quicker than the 'coil' method, and much faster to deploy than both.

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This is how I do it. I just couldn't say it as clearly as idea guy.

[Bug]

Seems like another damn thing to carry to me. I use slings or the rope. But don't listen to me. I eat shit.

[chucK]

quote:

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Originally posted by Idea Guy:

"I would like to hear how you guys "bundle" up this mass of cord/webbing in a convenient, easy to get out again manner. "

Electrician's Braid, knitter's crochet, successive slip knots, whatever you want to call it.

My 24-foot cordelette (a 12-foot loop), grab and hold the joining knot (double grapevine, double fishermans, opposed double overhands, whatever you want to call it)and slide to the far end, put the two 'ends' together folding the original length in half.

Make a small loop next to the joining knot (in all 4 strands), push a bight through the loop, push another bight through the first bight, and so on... until you have only a few inches left, slip the end through the last bight.

Clip the end and the beginning. Total length 10-inches, making it smaller than the 'overhand' method and quicker than the 'coil' method, and much faster to deploy than both.

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How long does it take you to do all that??? Maybe you can take it out quick but doing that braiding shit takes all day to put away. Just fold the thing in fours (i.e. 2 folds, once in half, twice in four) tie a loose overhand in the mess and clip a loop or two.

Oooops now that I read back I see that Matt A has already presented this elegant solution. Sorry to be redundant.

[ 03-12-2002: Message edited by: chucK ]

[mattp]

Bug -

On most "normal" rock climbs, I believe it probably is just another thing to carry. You will almost never use it on routes where there are fixed belay stations (of course), but even on most popular trad climbs that do not have pre-set anchors I find adequate placements close enough together that I rarely need the cordelette. And the climbing rope can generally be used for the occasional long leash to a more distant anchor. However, when doing something more off-the-track, I find I use it more, and I'm happy to have that 20 feet of extra cordage that I might cut up and leave behind at rappels if necessary.

[chucK]

Along with the obvious anchor building functionality that I agree is not really needed very often, I find cordelettes ocassionally useful for protection during a pitch. They work well for quickly looping a medium-sized tree, for slinging a really big boulder or other large rock protruberance, or occasionally as a really long sling that to help straighten out the rope to reduce drag. Can fashion it as an aider or prussic too.

[miker]

Well I have used both methods for tying up my cordelette, which I always bring on the long trad routes for all the reasons listed above. I find the electrician's braid tends to be a bit more bulky than just taking 10inches folding it back and then wrapping it around tightly, then hook the biner through both ends and you have a little loop. It does take a little longer, but in general it works well. I also like having it along in case I need to cut off a piece to replace or reinforce a manky looking piece of webbing at a rap station. The webollette's do look nice but a bit pricy for a chunk of webbing.

my 2cents

miker

[lizard_brain]

Yeah, Bug, it's another damn thing to carry, but I tried it and liked it. I leave the triple sling home now.