David_Parker

Jake, when you buy a ticket at a resort, you are agreeing to ski by their rules. The resort may have stipulations with their contract with the Forest Service to deny access from the resort. But more importantly, ducking ropes often puts people still in the resort at risk. At Alta and I'm sure many other resorts, there are places where ducking a rope could cause an avalanche to come down on inbounds skiiers. You better pray you don't get caught in Utah. They will prosecute! The interesting thing here is who are the policies protecting really? The resort or the general public? It seems the only alternative to an open gate with warnings is a closed gate. Which do you prefer? BTW, the hike from 9990 to Duches Draw is way to easy to keep out an average skiier.

So the question is then, why say "lifetime?" or what does that really mean? If your gortex delams and leaks after 8 years, do you take it back? If the velcro on your OR gators blows out after 3 years? If the internal gators on your pants are shredded after six years? All this leaves a big grey area between exercizing your rights and being an "asshole." I happen to be in that grey area with TNF right now.

I know for a fact that when I was 23 I would ski shit I would not now. I'm older and wiser and definitely do not feel immortal like I did in my 20's. Is this yet another case of people feeling safe because they are wearing beacons? Did the survivor really know how to use one? Why couldn't he find them? This is tragic and my heart goes out to their parents and friends. As my son gets older, I hope he will not become one of these victims because I won't be there all the time. I hope I can influence him in the best way possible. This really sucks.

I was at Bridalveil and vecinity on Sunday. After getting lost in the woods looking for a climb called White Wedding to the right of BV, we ended back at the base of Bridalveil. The volume of water was huge and the temps were above freezing indicated by the rain that was falling. We moved left to Never a Bride and Casey and Zac were on it. So we moved further left and climbed (I don't know the name?). While leading the second pitch, I heard a tremendous crash from Bridalveil. When we finished, Casey and Zac were done with NAB and the 4 of us hiked out around 3:00 while another party of French Canadians were doing the first pitch of NAB. I didn't go over to Bridalveil, but if they were truly on the ice on the left side of the main falls late in the afternoon, they aren't very smart ice climbers. I hope everyone is OK. NAB and the one to the left were relatively safe that day but it was getting warm fast.

The avalanche at the Canyons raises a lot of questions and debate. Which policy is best for the public and which is best for the Canyons (or any ski resort adjacent to National Forest backcountry.) Many American ski resorts including Jackson Hole have moved away from opening and closing gates and chasing skiiers in favor of a more Euro policy. Keep the gate open and force all that go through to read the skull and crossbones sign warning of potential and iminent death. By doing this they actually reduce their liability because they are not making any claims that the area is safe or not safe. The old policy of opening and closing gates actually increased lability for the resorts because it presumed they knew best. By keeping the gates open at all times, the liability is always on all that that pass through. The problem with the gate at the Canyons and presumably at many other resorts is that it provides access to a BC area, but the skiiers then return to the resort to ride the lift and make another lap. So skiiers are technically out of bounds, but realistically still skiing the resort. When I lived in Park City, they had a policy that you can leave the resort, but do NOT come back. To do so meant loosing your ticket and possible fines and prosecution. Unfortunately this would not work at for Dutches Draw at the Canyons because the drainage forces you back into the resort. So unless the BC area is truly in another drainage and you can't come back to the resort without skinning up again, are you realistically in or out of bounds? The gate at the Canyons is at the top of 9990 Ski lift. The gate is an easier hike from there than the walk from your car to the lift. What if the gate were at the bottom, and to enter and ski Duches Draw you actually had to skin up? Under those circumstances, most of skiiers would be more knowledgeable about BC conditions then Joe Blow and his wife that actually follow someone past the gate. Gates from ski resorts offer a BC experience to people who aren't qualified to judge for themselves whether they should go or not go. Thus the skull and crossbones. Unfortunately, they don't percieve the skull and cross bones the same way as a bottle of poison because they regularly see people drinking from the bottle with no ill effect. Still, it is a risk and they should think twice before drinking! I asked my brother who is a very experienced BC skiier if he would have gone through the gate that day? He suspects he would have. Utah has very dicey conditions due to an early snowfall in November followed by a long cold dry spell and then lots of snow for 2 weeks. The TG layer way down at the base recieved the critical weight that day. Skiier compaction had no effect in stabalizing the slope. The crown face was 10-12 feet and Dutches Draw is exactly that....so all that snow was funneled into a relatively small area and piled up high and deep. If all the skiiers had trancievers, it would have helped with body recovery, thats all. Requiring skiiers to wear a transciever and carry a shovel may essentially have the same effect as opening and closing a gate in that it leads the ignorant public to believe they are "safer". I don't think however it really increases the realistic margin of safety and therefore would not really improve the situation as far as people dieing or not.

Many stores and manufacturers offer "lifetime" guarantees on their products, including clothing. Some have a "no questions" or "satisfaction guaranteed" policy, while others seem to give you a major song and dance. Many people totally abuse the policy, but the company seems to make up in increased revenue for having the policy in the first place. I would say far and above all the companies out there is LL Bean. On the other hand, companies like TNF seem to have an extremely limited "lifetime" warantee, going so far as claiming "it's the expected lifetime of the garment". How do you define that without getting into an arguement? Goretex offers a "lifetime" warantee, but you certainly wouldn't go straight to them to replace a leaky jacket or pants. So what good is that? What is your experience and how do you interpret "lifetime" guarantee?

My middle initial is "P" for perseverence! I was more interested in doing one of those 3 climbs than trying to find something else using an old guidebook in an area I know nothing about! Our 4th and final v-thread was built in deteriorating light as our headlamps were at the base in our packs.

Was just going to report this. Beat me to it. Spoke with my brother who lives in Park City. Big probe line going on right now. We used to ski this quite frequently in safer conditions. Lets pray nobody dies!

pm MattP. He knows

I don't think pounding with a hammer is a very good idea. I bent my bails to my bionics by squeezing them in a vice. I'm glad I kept my CM grade 8 duals because I have some concerns about my bionics as mono points. Maybe I'll just save them for playing on mixed routes.

We did the Tofana di Roses (Giovanni Lipella route) from the Dibona hut. I wore plastic koflachs and carried an ice axe due to much snow on top. Cool tunnel on that one. The one we did near Tre Cime (Drei Zinnen) also had tunnels. I don't remember the name. All these tunnels were built in war time as the Dolomites are really neither Austria or Italy in the minds of the Sud-Tiroleans that live there because the border has shifted back and forth. They'd just as soon be their own country or don't really care. Speaking German, Italian or English seems to work for most everyone. Some of the friendliest people I've ever met. I especially like how they support each other by buying their goods in the town they live in. Costco wouldn't have a prayer! FYI for those who aren't familiar. All those cool scenes in Cliffhanger were filmed on via ferattas in the Dolomites. The last scene where the helicopter gets hung up on that long steel ladder and rips it out was probably arranged becase CAI, (club alpinism Italiano) who manages and maintains the via ferattas decided it needed to be replaced. I wonder what anti-bolt enthusiasts would think of all that hardware in the Dolomitie wilderness? Who has a source on Via Ferratta and Refugio books. At the time we had to order them from the UK. Are they in the US now?

I think putting the munter on my nuts would be less painful than the dulfersitzthing, ja! I never knew why those Austrian or Bavarian sweaters had leather patches on the shoulder and they wore leiderhozen (sP?) until I tried it once. Ye-ow! I put my autoblock on my leg loop and make sure it can't reach and jam in the rappell device. It also helps to have a quiver of belay devices sized to match your ropes.

Aww shit, Ken's leaving! Jeez Ken, we never got to go snow boarding together. Now who am I gonna pick on??? I'll try to make it 'cause really, I do like you!

Interesting concept. What do you hitch YOUR munters on?...your nuts? I prefer a biner. Just my belay loop! Just kidding, sorry, I meant no "extra" biners. I was assuming everyone had at least one big locker!

I did a 2 week trip in '00. We did west ridge of Marmolada with enough snow that the cable was burried in spots. Too much snow/ dicy weather for S. Face routes. Still worth it. We also went to Cinque Torre. I did the via ferrata out of there in a blizzard. We also did the Tofana di Roses out of the Dibona hut. There is another famous ferrata close by. We then went to Tre Cime and climbed the Picolo although I wish I did the Grand on one of the easier routes. We also did a great and fairly long ferrata with cool tunnels. We then went to the Civetta group but ran out of time. There are great ferattas and moderate, really cool pinnacles to climb near there. Cortina is sort of central, but you don't need to stay there too much. We had a rental car and would highly suggest it for at least part of your trip. Driving those mountain roads in the Dolomites is as much fun and a great "sport"! All my photos are on slides and I'd really like to get them digitalized so I could share. The trip was really fun, great people, amazing terrain. Most of the mountains look like they'd be 5.11 and up, but there are actually moderate routes on huge faces all over. Bring your helmet though!

Munter uses no biners and works too! Every climber should know this knot!

I think the time frame on these was more like the last few years, not months. The post was made in 2000. First ed. of Nelson vol II w. Colonial in it came out that year I had never heard of it before then either It appears this thread started way back in '00 and JoshK revived it after 5 years. The North Face of Colonial is hard to miss and never needed to be in a guide book to be "discovered". The thing stares you down every time you drive the North Cascades highway. As far as I know, it's only been climbed 4 times: 1-Twight and co, 2-Rat and co, 3-Forrest and Dan and 4-David and Wayne. Speaking for myself, I will admit Nelson's guide book inspired me somewhat, but it didn't lead me to the climb. Just like the North Rib of Fury, once I saw it, I wanted to climb it. Simple as that. Beckey's guides are so incredibly complete for such a complicated and vast area that it's hard to imagine there are any 1st ascents left out there. But there are and they will be found by the explorers willing to put in the effort. To climb year round in the Cascades you have to have a long list of routes you want to do. You then tick them off as the weather and conditions allow. I don't mind using guide books to formulate that list.

I'm looking at new skis again. Want fat 185's to put tele bindings on. Don't have to be tele skis per se though. I won't spend much so don't point out skis for over $250!

Ken, I'm so sorry you went straight to snowboarding before learning to ski. If you had learned to ski first, you would probably be doing both now, and then you could go to Alta! Alta is not the best for snowboarding anyways, especially with the Bird next door. So much of Alta is traversing out and hiking to get the real goods which explains why there are so many tele skiiers. Snowbird requires much less hiking but also gets trashed sooner on a powder day. When I lived in Utah, we had a saying...."Colorado is for people who haven't discovered Utah!" As far as Utah being a "fucked" state, well what are you talking about? The people or the state itself. I think Utah is one of the most diverse and beautiful states in the lower 48. If you can't figure out how to party in Park City, go the fuck home!

Hank, I am sure you could find a partner somewhere other than the guide service, but if you have never climbed on a mountain like hood, invest the $ in Timberline Mt. Guides. They are not huge like RMI. They are a very reputable, smaller company and you will have fun with them too. But most importantly, you will learn a lot of important skills from professionals in 2 days that you can then take on to other mountains if you're hooked. Mt Hood is a great place to start climbing big mountains with glaciers and some altitude. Go with the guide service and it will open more doors than just hooking up with a stranger. Feel free to PM if you want more info. I really like Pete and Steve and I know you will too!

If that's a BRS X-15, please pm me asap.

Just had 5 powder days in a row in Utah including 20" of new at Alta on New Years day. It had been awhile since I'd skiied there and it still is the best place on the kind powder day....no friggin boarders!!!!!!!!! I saw more tele skiers in the first 5 minutes than I've seen all year in Washington. But that was partly because anyone with 1/2 a brain was NOT in the backcountry that day. Man, I am so glad to get powder days in Utah!! Hey, Larrythellama, how's that Sierra Cement?

Post deleted by David_Parker

We really were hoping to send in one day. If we made it to the gendarme with enough light to climb it, we would climb through the night. It would be a tough route to carry bivy gear on. And no Bug, if I was a hard man, I guess we would have suffered through the night and kept going. But damn, 15 hour long nights are hard to take for me! Wayne did not have any gear stashed up there. Rumor has it someone else we know does. The idea of carrying bivy gear around to the notch where the upper ridge starts has been brought up, but Wayne and I think it's cheating. At least now the lower section has been done in winter and hopefully provides inspiration to others. The upper section was done a while ago. Someday someone will connect the whole thing. I'd just like to say I was glad to be with Wayne on that route. That guy is truly a great all round climber and he deserves most of the credit for getting us up.

We used a pockety rocket and msr cannister for 4 days on Mt. Stuart last week with no problems. You can warm the cannister up in about 3 minutes by putting it in your armpit or crotch. We used a hanging stove setup so the canister wasn't in the snow. It wasn't super cold though either.