Terry

I'm with Roger. I don't like to do dishes when climbing so the pot is only used to melt snow or boil water. My favorite non-freeze dried meals are the Indian meals (garbanzo curry, spinach curry, or masaman potatoes) that come in foil envelopes. I've seen them at Trader Joes and Marlenes Deli in Fed Way (next to REI) and Tacoma. Throw minute rice in a bag in the pot along with the foil pouches and heat. I use a two cup plastic measuring cup or quart-size yogurt container to eat out of. Use the heated water for cup of soup or other hot drink. Terry

We landed in San Diego after snow-related delays in Seattle on Saturday. We intended on climbing at Tahquitz but with snow level down around 3,000 feet opted for JT. We pulled in early Sunday morning and headed straight for Indian Cove. Spent the morning climbing in shorts and tee shirt. Then headed over to Hidden Valley in the afternoon and found numerous wind-scarred climbers dressed to the max. No more shorts and tee shirts. We did a couple routes with winds gusting to 40+ mph. The rope was bowed between pro. Had a great meal on St Paddys day, complete with Guiness at Crossroads Cafe then back to Indian Cove to our 'protected' campsite. In the interest of weight I brought along the Megamid and ended up eating sand all night. Next time I'll lug the floor along. I kept expecting the tent to fly away. The wind finally died down about 4 a.m., replaced by rain. We got up at 8 to snow flurries (Ranger Rick told us the day before that it hadn't snowed in 10 years). Climbing wasn't in the cards that day and we had meetings on Tuesday so it was a quick trip.Terry

A friend asked me to help her with a climbing competition this weekend. The only problem was the wall at the Y is small - less than the width of handball court. To make up for the lack of routes we made it more interesting. We broke it up into the approach (timed, aerobic events) and climbing. The approach consisted of 1/2 mile on a treadmill set at 15%, 25 floors on a Stairmaster (the kind with escalator-type stairs) and 250 feet on a versaclimber. Each participant controled the speed. I planned on 1,000 feet on versaclimber but reduced it when it looked like the first particpant was going to need CPR. Total time was factored into the points they got from climbing. After the approach they did as many pullups as they could (tie-breaker). Climbing routes were probably in 5.7 to 5.10a range. Given the size of the wall we gave each participant 15 minutes to do the six routes. One guy managed to do five of them. There weren't any breaks between events, so most folks were not too fresh when they hit the wall. They also had no idea what we had in store for them. It was fun but would have been better if I had been allowed to hide at the top of the wall and drop small rocks, ice cubes and water down on the contestants.

I don't mean to be a smartass but if you've found granite in Renton you need to get in touch with the USGS. From what I know of the area I'm suspecting you're climbing on glacial till which would roughly be the equivalent of climbing on rotten concrete with a lot of cobbles in it. If it stands up to repeated use, then more power to you and it. I'm anxious to see it. Terry

We did a long traverse in the Winds in 1978. We took off from Green River Lakes up the Clear Creek Trail to the Cont. Divide and went south along the divide - easy cross country travel on mixed snow and scree. We climbed Bastion Peak and some other small stuff along the way. We spent a couple of days (based on faulty memory)going south along the Divide toward Grasshopper Glacier to Dinwoody Basin, where we spent the night before doing a 5.7 or 5.8 route up a gully on the North Face of Gannett. Two other of our group did the standard route which had one tricky move getting over the bergschrund. We topped out to find ourselves in the middle of an electrical storm, tossed all of biners, protection and metallic devices and found a place to hunker down while it blew over, then descended the standard route. We spent the last two nights by Pilot Peak and did an interesting corkscrew-like ascent of Pilot. I think Fred did first ascent. Spent a long day hiking out along Squaretop back to the cars. Terry

My smart-ass climbing partner suggested I submit our trip report from about 10 years ago. Weekend before Christmas as I recall, although I've been doing my best to forget the whole thing. We left Paradise early and skiied up to Muir with big fing packs. Got to the hut about 3:30 or 4:00 with big storm clouds building up to the west. No one else around but us. We spent some time shoveling out the door, finally got into the hut and started unpacking. We got some dry clothes on, Walt retrieved some snow and I went to unpack the stove. Shit, no stove. We went through my pack twice and through Walt's once just in case. So let's see, storm coming in, no water, no stove and not a lot of other conversation. We threw the packs back on and proceeded to flail back down to Paradise. The snow sucked, our legs were trashed and the weather sucked. I have never done so many headers in my life. We finally got to the car, headed down the hill and found the gate down at Longmire. A half-hour later after thoughts of beer and food we found someone to let us out. Now with beer and food our only focus in life we drove west arriving at every restaurant just as they closed. It was uncanny. We finaly found something open in Puyallup where they consider Denny's to be high class. We ended up in some place where we were the only ones not smoking, the beer was either Coors light or MGD and the steak tasted worse than we smelled. Great trip! Anything to add Walt?Terry

Dru, That one's too easy. I suspect that Mr. Berdinka will know the answer to it as well. It's a good view of where we zigged when we should have zagged. Terry

Don't mean to belittle the great discussion going on here, but this is too good to pass up.Terry "In his speech, Bush calls Iraq, Iran and North Korea 'Axis of Evil" -- N.Y.Times,1/30/02 ANGERED BY THEIR SNUBBING, LIBYA, CHINA AND SYRIA FORM 'AXIS OF JUST AS EVIL'; Cuba, Sudan, Serbia Form 'Axis of Somewhat Evil'; Other Nations Start Own Clubs Beijing : Bitter after being snubbed for membership in the "Axis of Evil," Libya, China, and Syria today announced they had formed the "Axis of Just as Evil," which they said would be way eviler than that stupid Iran-Iraq-North Korea axis President Bush warned of his State of the Union address. Axis of Evil members, however, immediately dismissed the new axis as having, for starters, a really dumb name. "Right. They are Just as Evil...... in their dreams!" declared North Korean leader Kim Jong-il. "Everybody knows we're the best evils... best at being evil... we're the best." Diplomats from Syria denied they were jealous over being excluded, although they conceded they did ask if they could join the Axis of Evil. "They told us it was full," said Syrian President Bashar al-Assad. "An Axis can't have more than three countries," explained Iraqi President Saddam Hussein. "This is not my rule, it's tradition. In World War II you had Germany, Italy, and Japan in the evil Axis. So you can only have three. And a secret handshake. Ours is wicked cool." THE AXIS PANDEMIC International reaction to Bush's Axis of Evil declaration was swift, as within minutes, France surrendered. Elsewhere, peer-conscious nations rushed to gain triumvirate status in what became a game of geopolitical chairs. Cuba, Sudan, and Serbia said they had formed the Axis of Somewhat Evil, forcing Somalia to join with Uganda and Myanmar in the Axis of Occasionally Evil, while Bulgaria, Indonesia and Russia established the Axis of Not So Much Evil Really As Just Generally Disagreeable. With the criteria suddenly expanded and all the desirable clubs filling up, Sierra Leone, El Salvador, and Rwanda applied to be called the Axis of Countries That Aren't the Worst But Certainly Won't Be Asked to Host the Olympics; Canada, Mexico, and Australia formed the Axis of Nations That Are Actually Quite Nice But Secretly Have Nasty Thoughts About America, while Spain, Scotland, and New Zealand established the Axis of Countries That Be Allowed to Ask Sheep to Wear Lipstick. "That's not a threat, really, just something we like to do," said Scottish Executive First Minister Jack McConnell. While wondering if the other nations of the world weren't perhaps making fun of him, a cautious Bush granted approval for most axes, although he rejected the establishment of the Axis of Countries Whose Names End in "Guay," accusing one of its members of filing a false application. Officials from Paraguay, Uruguay, and Chadguay denied the charges. Israel, meanwhile, insisted it didn't want to join any Axis, but privately, world leaders said that's only because no one asked them.

Hey while cleaning the garage two weeks ago I found my box of old "On Belays." There's no doubt in my mind that a second read of these guys is preferrable to anything on the market. Some of Mr Smutek's ego shows through a bit, but it's nothing compared to the angst-ridden, self-promoting drivel that comes out of Twight and his type. Yeah, I still have my orginal MSR belay link, circa 1976, as well. Small and incredibly effective. On another topic. I hope you guys keep crazyjg from partying his pants off tonight. That's a scary thought with is girlfriend out of the country.TerryTerry

Walter B. and I did the Sandy Glacier Headwall as part of a party of four several years ago. Actually we were four then the fifth guy showed up at midnight with some dog who followed him from Timberline, but that's another story. He soloed the tourist route. We spent the night at Illumination Saddle and witnessed my Stephenson Warmlite tent get blown to bits. Once the poles exploded and disappeared we were in a giant sandwich bag that flapped and rained condensation on us all night, but that's another story. Illumination Saddle is a great place to test gear. We got an early start and made it over to the base of the headwall without incident. The wind was still howling up high and was dumping large chunks of ice and semi-solidified dirt (cascade rock)on us on the headwall. We all had helmets, a second tool and two ropes but they were in our packs. I'm still not sure why we didn't put on the helmets but we didn't. Snow conditions were great. We veered to the right on the upper third and inadvertently ended up doing the 1937 variation Dick talks about. Walter kicked steps to within about a hundred feet of the ridge then I took over. We still had the helmets and second tools in our packs but we did pull out the rope. As I took over, the slope got steeper and a lot harder, but of course I didn't notice this until I was too far into to it to pull out the other tool, screws or helmet. I made it to a semi-solidified dirt band and had one move to make to get around a bulge and get on the ridge. As I made the move I found myself holding a loaf of bread-sized chunk of frozen dirt. Now, with the ice-axe dangling off of one arm, the loaf of bread in my other I looked down at my helmetless climbing partners 70 feet below me. The belay consisted of Walter with his axe driven half-way into the slope. As I made the move I was forced to drop the loaf (Walter claims he still has a bump on his head from the impact. I submit that the bump was pre-existing and that the loaf exploded and turned into dirt before it hit him) and kind of half dove/half fell over the ridge. We got serious at that point and belayed everyone up and put our helmets on before descending Leutholds Couloir. A very fun memorable climb. We still wonder where the hell the dog came from and where he ended up.Terry

After 20+ years I pulled my stupidest stunt this fall. We were climbing one of the cracks at Octopus' Garden. We got geared up, I went off and watered the vegetation, came back, threw on the rack and took off. I put in a cam, moved up to some harder ground and heard the velcro on my harness make a surprising sound. In my haste to get on the rock I had neglected to buckle the harness, not just forgot to double it back through the buckle. While poised between moves I had to pull the harness back up and get the velcro reattached. As I moved up to a comfortable perch and got in another piece I almost started laughing at myself, envisioning a fall with me hanging upside trapeze-like with my knees clenched around my leg loops. Pretty embarrassing. Terry

Larry Penberthy, founder of MSR, died yesterday at 85. The obit in the Tacoma News Tribune gives him credit for "MSR Model 9 stove, the first remote-burner-component mountaineers' stove, in which the liquid-fuel canister was not an integral part of the burner mechanism. He also developed the first multi-fuel stove for mountaineering. His other contributions to advances in mountaineering equipment, the company said, included metal ice-ax shafts to replace the weaker wooden ones then in use, a positive-clearance ice ax pick, which digs into glacier ice to halt an uncontrolled slide rather than skipping off the ice, and Gore-Tex laminated fabrics for backpacking and climbing applications, such as clothing and tents.Penberthy invented "pit zips," zippered underarm parka vents, helped popularize bicycle helmets and developed Teflon-lined ice screws that became popular for their strength and ease of insertion.Penberthy also taught the climbing community how to apply simple engineering principles to improve safety and efficiency, the company reported, such as teaching climbers to paint their shiny cooking pots black to increase efficiency." I still use my MSR Sumner for glacier slogs and routinely use the old Thunderbird as a loaner for new climbers. Larry had long on-going battles with Mt Rainier Park Service regarding their methods in granting climbing permits. It was not uncommon for the people to be turned around due to poor equipment or lack of experience. He had very strong opinions and his newsletter was a treat. He espoused the use of litmus paper to test your urine to see how acidic your system was while climbing at altitude. He thought ice axes needed to be long, and consequently MSR wouldn't sell you an ice axe if it didn't touch the floor while your were holding it while standing with your hands at your side. Terry in Tacoma

Dru, border crossing was Aldergrove. Other than the stupid questions it was a quicker crossing than pre-WTC. Most of the cracks were moist or had water running in them but the faces were dry. My first trip to Squamish with one of the other CascadeClimbers was spent climbing in the rain about 13 yrs ago. We did Diedre with a small river running down the crack. Neither of us can read real well and spent an hour or so trying to climb the headwall at the end of the climb, not realizing we were done. Actually, I think that was all Walter's fault. Of course there were no other idiots up there climbing in the rain. I think we wandered by Funorama on Saturday. I thought I knew where everthing was and had my old yellow guidebook. Now I realize that the MacLane 1992 guidebook is also pretty outdated. I guess I'll have to buy another one to keep up with the changes up there. I also need to add Doo-ood to my vocabulary, based on the conversations I had with the two guys we saw. Terry

Dru, this is getting too weird, you've been at 3 out of my last 4 climbs. We did a marathon trip to Squamish on Saturday. Four hours up and five back (including beer and barbeque in Mt Vernon). Climbed Penny Lane with wet start, couple of things at Ronin's Corner and finished up with more cracks at Octopus Garden. We thought we were the only ones there until we got back down to the Bluffs and then saw the full parking lot. Not a trip that I will repeat on a regular basis but it was worth it this time. Who expects to be climbing in the sun in November, even if the rock is a bit damp? I think the guard at the border crossing has spent too many Saturdays at Muir. When asked where we'd been, we replied Squamish, he replied, "Climbing?" I said yes and he replied, "Climbers huh? Are you farmers too?" Neither one of us were wearing our bibs or straw hats. Terry

I used one all summer and found it adequate. Light and cheap. Since it doesn't have a liner, it gets a bit clammy, but you can't have everything for under a $100. I've got an MEC Couloir for more serious alpine and winter stuff. Terry

Jon, I find Hammer Gel to be as tolerable as any of the gels, and they are way better than M&Ms, Snickers and the other "energy foods" we used to eat. Check out http://www.pponline.co.uk/ and search for "gels" for some good info on the optimal use of the stuff. Basically, if you're not getting stuff into your bloodstream at the right concentration (7% - roughly 1 PowerGel along with 13 - 14 oz of water), it's just sitting in your stomach in a big lump or is too watered down to do much. Most of the studies are results of studying runners or cyclists. If you're using gels for weight issues, you may be better off just taking your preferred sports drink in the recommended concentration. Interesting stuff. Any nutrionists out there to comment or provide some expert opinons? Terry

Another way to is Hammer Gel - good prices and comes in bulk quantities. http://www.e-caps.com/cart/hg_hammergel.cfm Terry

I climbed at UPS last year and am going to reup for next year. You can't beat $100/year even if it is a bit small. I used to think Tacoma was a pit until I moved here. Quiet neighborhood, reasonable priced housing, three miles to work and YMCA, one mile to UPS, four miles to Pt. Defiance and muddy trail running all to myself, less than a mile to coffee and good beer, and no traffic. Yeah it's a pit. I hope it stays this way.Terry

Check out today's Tacoma News Tribune - www.tribnet.com. There is an article ("Climbing Under Cover" in the Soundlife section) about the new Vertical World and available indoor climbing gyms in general. Not a lot to choose from in Tacoma other than UPS. Terry

Forest, Good story. If it hasn't already been done, "Epics" would be an enjoyable new thread. Sorry about the confusion on my part. My point was broad and well hidden. This discussion is mirroring the one between my two climbing partners way back when. I acknowledge the poorly-tied knot doesn't have much to do with which is best but it certainly cemented in my mind which I prefer. Personally, I can tie the DF in the dark with my eyes closed and can feel to be sure it's correct. Others may be able to do the same with EDK. We got a single rope stuck on Prussik last year on the first rap. No amount of pulling, flicking, or weighting would budge it. I climbed back up the WRidge and found the rope caught on one crystal just below the anchor. I moved the rope and had my partner test it and it slid fine once it was away from rope grabbing rock. Terry

One of my first 'interesting' climbing weekends revolved around the use of the double fisherman vs. the water knot. Two parties headed up to Washington Pass for the weekend. We did the Beckey route on Liberty Bell and got our ropes stuck on the last rappel using a DF knot. Luckily some guys were one pitch up on the N Face of Concord. They lowered a rope down to us, we tied on our rope, they pulled our rope up and managed to free the knot. The whole time this was going on, there was a raging debate going on between two of my partners about how screwed up it was to use the DF and why the hell didn't we use the WK since it was less likely to get jammed. The two guys arguing were classic character types - one ironworker construction superintendent the other a mechanical engineer. Very enjoyable interaction with lots of yelling. We got our ropes down, people cooled down and we headed back to the car and drove down the road to Burgundy. Burgundy was still thought of as an aid route in those days, the only guide book was Beckey's original guidebook - I wish I had kept that one. Three of us did the route, me and the two knot-tying protagonists. My feet were killing me from EBs that were way too tight and I basically demanded to go first on the last rappel so I could get the damned shoes off. After the debacle the previous day we were using the water knot. I set up a double biner rappel, backed off from the anchor and dropped over the edge, and to my surprise was basically falling - the knot had come untied. For some reason it was my day. I reached out (it was slow motion) grabbed a rock horn and my feet landed on a small ledge. My partners both peered over the edge very slowly and looked like a couple kids at Christmas time. I flipped the ropes up to them, asked them to please tie them together and resumed my descent in a more controlled manner. Nothing was ever said between the knot-tyer and me. The obvious failing on all our parts was not to examine the knot. Having said that, I use the DF for all rappels nowadays. With over 20 years of climbing I've had just as many ropes get caught without the knot being an issue as I've had get caught by knots- in cracks that neck down, by protruding crystals, or over sharp edges. Speed is not an issue in my opinion whether its the time it takes to tie or untie the knot. It's not calf-roping and the thirty seconds difference in tying the rope isn't important when you're going to trust your life to the knot. Holly was the .5 Camalot failure on the 'nipple' pitch of Zodiac? I heard about it from a friend in Tacoma at lunch yesterday. Terry

North Buttress of Fury Incredible setting, mind-boggling slide alder (in spite of Beckey's dire warnings, "Do not descend MacMillan Creek." We did, in totally socked-in conditions.), committment, mixed climbing, icefall, views and no people.

But I love climbing, and I'm a starving college student who spends all his money on a Perkin's loan. I can't afford those fancy $50 cam's, I can barely afford a set of nuts. So I clip bolts because I'd rather see the environmental damage of having some drilled holes then give up my love for climbing. Heard from a desperate climber while climbing at the S. Fork of the Clearwater in Idaho several years ago: "I don't have any friends and my nuts are too small." You don't need $50 cams to climb and if you can't afford nuts and hexes it would seem that you can't afford the gas to get to the climb. Over-dependence on equipment and the false sense of security they bring with them is probably a lecture yet to be delivered by Prof Dwayner.

North Face is also fun. We did it after doing the Beckey route last weekend. First pitch is easy 5.6, second is a little more interesting with some weird moves on semi-poor quality rock. I could pull a fixed pin almost all the way out by hand, but it had good stopper placement nearby and 1/4 bolt (not sure what the purpose of the bolt was, unless I was off-route)right above it. The last pitch is fun with a variety of climbing on good quality rock. With 60 meter rope I was about 5 feet short of making the first rappel - downclimbed to anchor. Next two raps were easy. Terry

We were headed to Squamish this weekend when precip at Mt Vernon detoured us up to Washington Pass. I was giving a gym climbing friend her first taste of the outdoors. We did the Beckey Route on LB and North Face of Concord in cold, misty weather. We took the long way home via Peshastin and let her see the warm, more casual side of climbing. We did a few routes then headed over to Lighting Crack. Since someone was on it we did the West Face route. We talked to the other couple on LC as we were getting ready. He cruised the lower portion putting in one piece midway, then a second piece in the crux. He appeared to be a decent climber but was really struggling with the crux. It was warm and you could tell he wasn't having an easy time with it. He had his feet too low (easy for me to say) and they kept skittering out from under him resulting in short 2 or 3 foot falls. The third time he fell he apparently grabbed the piece, giving it enough of an upward pull to pull it out, and went airborne, landing on his butt/back with a thud about 30 feet down. Very scary. He claimed to be okay but was obviously in a little bit of shock. Another foot or two and he would have landed on his helmetless head. A second piece before the crux would have helped a lot but again the guy knew the route and hindsight is cheap. I've been climbing since the mid-70s and have always worn a helmet in the mountains. The old MSR was extremely protective but weighed a ton and we never thought we needed one when cragging. Steve, the guy on Sunday, had absolutely no control over his landing. I'm rethinking my helmet habits. Hopefully Steve and his butt are recovering. Terry