Winter

Just a final remider for anyone interested in protecting Cooper Spur. Thanks.

quote: Originally posted by Fairweather: www.cdfe.org/daschle_logging.htm ....now you'll tell me how its BOTH Republicans AND Democrats that you decry! .....only I never seem to hear the outrage here when Dems do it. Just constant whining about "Cheyney"... "the administration"..."The Bushies"...blah, blah, blah, blah. Five years ago it was the right-wingers crying about government "jack-booted thugs". Now it is the lefties saying the exact same thing. You hypocrites. I have to shed a little light on FW's oft-cited cause celebre for the tree-cutting powers that be. Daschle tried to work out an agreement between enviros and industry over how best to manage fire risk on our public lands (long before this summer's fire season). Biodiversity Conservation Alliance backed out, because they thought the deal was bad for forest health. Sierra Club and the Wilderness Society backed the deal. Daschle slipped it into an appropriations bill. Daschle certainly did not do the forests a favor in introducing the legislation, because now GW wants to "thin" 28 million acres of national forest. He did, however, at least attempt to engage the environmental community and build consensys on how best to IMPROVE forest health. As for the "jack-booted thugs" comment, think about it. You'll find more and more often that those that leaning to the far right and far left will share positions: free trade, corporate welfare, campaign reform, etc etc. Why? Because corporations have captured government, plain and simple. If you ain't a corporate interest, then the design of our electoral system places you at a disadvantage. It ain't hypocrytical to share that belief with the disenfranchised at the other end of the political spectrum. Oh yeah ... and one more thing. Its clear from your last post that seatbelts and radio programs ARE the greatest threat to your personal liberty. Too bad all the other individuals 'round these parts don't enjoy your privileged existence. Thankfully some folks can empathize with the less fortunate even though they don't face the same challenges ... chalk it up to human nature I guess. [ 09-10-2002, 08:50 PM: Message edited by: Winter ]

quote: Originally posted by Heywood Jablowme: Sumpin smells dude's gotta camel toe Begging the question of whether that's a dude at all or one hairy chick.

I was in Cirque of the Towers last week and met a guy named Mike (history prof from Bozeman) and his friend Darcy. They recounted a similar story on the Grand from maybe a couple weeks ago now. They had a party of four and got hit twice in a period of several minutes. The bolts hit the rock, into the first guy, through the three others, and out the last guy in line, who had exit wounds on his knee. We almost suffered the same fate on the East Face of Pingora but were able to bail to the south shoulder. Scary shit. Glad to hear you made it down safe.

I'm kicking this back up to the top. Come help out by spending a night up at the Mt. Hood B&B for a little partying: Cooper Spur fundraiser

quote: Originally posted by michael_layton: If you don't have any assets to be sued over, can you go to jail? that's pretty unlikely. being poor and liable isn't generally a crime. but it could dog you for a long time.

Went up to the Enchantments with rbw and climbed the West Ridge of Prussik car-to-car in a day. We had great conditions and minimal company on route. Freakin' granite ate our ropes on rappell and we had to postpone the 10 mile hike out by 90 minutes waiting from the next party to retrieve our gear. Sunday we climbed at Mounties But encouraging my girlfriend and a couple of her friends to lead trad and capped off the weekend skinny dipping with two hot blondes in Icicle Creek.

I guess I'll add my 2 cents. Earlier this year I was tied into a rope team of 3 on Liberty Ridge on rather mellow but exposed and very icy terrain. The leader didn't place pro, missed a step and shot down towards the Carbon glacier taking me with him. Luckily our 3rd guy happened to be on a patch of snow and self-arrested. Scary shit. That was at about 12,000 feet, so we had a ways to go over the top. The only way to control the fear was to take every move one step at a time. Focus on the task at hand, think about what you need to do and do it. Once you're committed, I think that's the only way to get it done. On a slightly different note, we all said after the fact that guys somehow have an ability to shake of life-threatening situations and treat each other like dirt just as they did the minute before. The question, however, was whether a woman could keep it together in the same situation. At the risk of being crushed with brutal e-mail and accepting the fact that I am making a completely unjustifiable generalization, does anyone see any difference in the way women (the more emotional sex) handle crisis situations in the moutains?

quote: Originally posted by texplorer: Some of my fav sandbags: Free for all 5.8 -Beacon Rock Stanley Burger route- Prussik Classic Crack 5.9 (My Ass) Broughton Bluff Steck Salathe 5.9 or 5.9A2 -Yosemite FYI ehmic: Godzilla isn't that wide. Uhh ... maybe you were on the .10a direct start to Free For All? Otherwise, its sustained but not harder than 5.8. Great route though. I'd say Classic Crack and everything else at Broughton's is sandbagged. Gandalf's at 5.9? An overhanging bulge off the ground into a finger and hand crack into slopers on a steep face and then an overhanging finishing bulge to another sloper underneath the anchor. Ugghh.

I think everyone has zeroeed in on the real issue: do we want climbing accidents in the courts? I'll say this ... the accident on Hood demonstrates how difficult it would be to resolve these issues in a court. The bottom line is that anytime you go anywhere in the mountains, you know a slide, rockfall, accident, gumby, pro guide or any other number of events or people could claim your life in a second. I also think there is a real difference here between criminal and civil liability. Criminal laws do extend into the backcountry, but I don't think we have to assume that personal injury and negligence suits should be the norm or acceptable.

I think the alternative is to let the criminal system rule the land and leave a great majority of the tort system at the trailhead. We all accept the risk that some idiot (including ourselves) is going to kill us in the mountains. But, nothing I say is all that well thought out. I'm really just pissed off 'cause I'm at my desk and ain't climbing.

bo knows dfa

mattp - As a plaintiffs' attorney I'm all for suing the trundlers. But, at the same time, litigation can generally screw up certain aspects of society. I've got enough worries having to deal with parking fees, climbing fees, rescue fees, permit fees, etc etc etc - I'm sick and tired of people regulating backcountry rec. The wilderness holds such a strong appeal, because it takes us all from the bullshit of everday life, including the American tort system. I like it that way.

quote: Originally posted by E-rock: Winter, sorry about the avatar, guess I'll change it. I actually look like that so watch out.

quote: Originally posted by russki82: hmmm...i've never climbed any "soft rock" before...here in the northeast most of our climbing is either on granite or on metaphorphic stuff like schist and gneiss. Personally, i'd get a bit alarmed at climbing anything that has the potential to crumble. But hey... Quit postin' here if you're gonna dis choss. We live in the Oregon cascades for piss sake.

I love the story in the recent book on 50 climbers and their favorite routes on Galen traveling to Circue of the Unclibables with two sport climbers who bolt a huge line up most of the wall until they get to 3 nasty .10c off-width pitches. They decided to scrap it and go home, but Galen put away the camera and the led the last pitches and then forced them into a bunch of 5.9 traverses to the summit. Classic.

Oh brother ... dissin' sport climbers is snobby but slab climbing on granite is "gay." Come on!! I think that guy spent at least four wekends trying to TR that slab.

Route finding on R&D isn't ovvious? Come on ... ths only problem would be if you followed Smoot's useless topo in his book which directs you past the obvious 5.5 slot to the 5.9 traverse under the roof on the first pitch. What the hell was that guy thinking? Givler's Crack is sweet and a good climb for someone not familiar with multi-pitch affairs. The bottom is a stiff 5.8 move off the ground which you can bypass by hiking up to the ledge on the right. Last weekend was my first at Leavenworth, I loved it. Enjoy! BTW, good luck finding a spot in a campground.

A buddy and I were bivied on the foot of the Adams Glacier preparing for the N. Face of the NW Ridge the next morning. Two guys some stumbling out of nowhere. One guy has huge rips in his bib and they are missing axes. The story is that they took a couple of nasty falls on the N. Face. We ask them where they are from - "Florida." Then they look down at our gear, and ask "what are those?" "Uhh ... pickets."

all climbers are equal. sport climbers are just less equal than others.

I am the ill-prepared wank, and I encourage all my bretheren wanks to spend as much time as possible in the mountains as opposed to pulling on their own projects for weekends on end.

quote: Originally posted by Dr Flash Amazing: It often takes weeks to send something, which adds up to a lot of attempts and a lot of dinking with draws if you're removing them all the time. Holy shit! Need anything else be said to disgrace the sportos? If I had weeks to climb you can bet you wouldn't catch me on the same 30m of rock day in and day out. Think of all the amazing alpine settings you could get to in the three weeks that it took you to pinkpoint that latest 5.14 - "Panties in a bunch." Get out in the mountains man!

Hey folks - I'm looking for a new pair of rock shoes for long trad routes ... alpine ... all day stuff. (Need 'em on time for my week long trip to the winds! ) I've tried on the Boreal Equinox and like the feel (board lasted) as well as the Mythos. Any recommendations or thoughts? Anyone used the Equinox, an "intermediate" shoe? Seems like everything out there these days is made for sport climbing.

and I suppose the media field has the market cornered on the idiot factor.

I can't believe how immature you people are. You chase off all the legends and leave this site to the sport weenies. Y'all can't live up to the high standards set by those that went before you. Shame.