dave schultz

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Skied it on Saturday. One section that is fun climbing (short, maybe 20 feet total) and then a scramble to the summit once your reach the top of the couloir (I stayed in crampons and used tools, partner climbed it without tools and without crampons). It should be much softer now, but we had really good firm climbing conditions on Saturday. A rope is not required, though some might want to use it in some sections.

Drove all the way to the end in a F250. Some tight spots for a big truck (we cleared some additional trees from the road to get my truck through), and was glad I had extra ground clearance in some spots. A normal car may have had some issues near the end ... The trail to Green Giant Buttress is relatively clear (we missed the turn off on the way in, but followed it on the way out). The river crossing seemed high, shoes and socks came off. Lots of fighting with alder, maybe it gets better? Dreamer was nice and dry, what a great route.

Looking at rock in the darrington or index area ... Wx looks pretty good, and not as hot. 239-two-three-three-2002. Dave

Feck - thanks for the info - I hope I can make it.

Any official date yet?

Doug - are you rapping on both your main climbing rope and the tag line? What is the diameter of your main rope in the photo? With one exception, your photo shows exactly how I would normally do a tag line (the exception is that I tie to loop/biner backup into the main climbing rope). I generally only use a tag line like this with ropes 9.2 or larger, with smaller I would probably be carrying two ropes and thus no tag line is required. The situation on Liberty Ridge involves a very small diameter main rope (8mm) and a similar diameter tag line (6mm). IMO there is no need to arrange a set up like pictured, as you are rappelling on BOTH the 6mm and 8mm. There is enough friction in the device, the one (or two) biners, and the prussik backup that the smaller rope will not travel uncontrollably through the device and there will be little if any movement of the knot as your rappel down (this was verified during all rappels). After hearing all of the comments about the system, I think it would be SAFER to place the larger rope through the v-thread with the knot on the opposite side, and will probably do this in the future (though I don't think it's unsafe to have it on the side as we did).

Interest you in going to index instead?

Good news about the ticks. Thanks for the report - looks like another great day.

Good point Wayne. We were both pretty new (ie first time doing pure aid), so it was good to have a little backup and support. I can see doing most of the rest of the aid climbing solo, at least on smaller stuff, like at Index.

Looking at doing something, depends on the partner situation. Rock/aid at Index, skiing, whatever ... We can start super early for a big day, or late for a mellow afternoon.

Quint, I think you misunderstand what is happening in the picture. The tag line and the dynamic rope are tied together with a simple overhand knot (standard way I think 97% of us do it). Then the tag line is fed through the v-thread and pulled through; you could fed the tag line through, then tie the ropes together. The reason the dynamic rope was NOT fed through the v-thread was to prevent damage to the tip of the dynamic rope by the v-thread tool; the system would work the same if the knot was on the other side (ie the dynamic rope was fed through the v-thread). Regardless, in our set up, and in the picture, the 6mm rope is going through the v-thread. Then both the tag and the dynamic are fed through your rappel device, so you are weighting both and using the friction from both. The only issue I know of with this set up, that is not a factor when using two ropes of similar diameter, is that you can experience knot slip. With a 8mm vs a 6mm, there is no knot slip (but was watched very closely to ensure there was none, in other situations, there could be, but we did not experience it). If there was knot slip, you would have had to do the traditional tag line set up (not going to describe it here, I'm sure we all know what it is, or you can Google it). Perhaps the term "tag line" is not the most accurate way to describe the smaller, 6mm cord. It was essentially using two normal ropes, just one of the normal ropes was 2mm smaller and 5m longer, and more static than dynamic. I hope that clarifies the system up for you. If you still have safety issues, please voice them.

I'm surprised it made it this long without a comment. I don't currently own a chainsaw, so unfortunately I can't ... Anyway, the 3-min walk in is a good warmup for the 5.6 GNS and the easy aid climbs, I'd hate to start climbing too cold ...

Pretty simple and basic.

Anyone want to do some aid climbing at index Friday or Saturday? Wx is questionable, but Saturday looks the best.

Dude - you and Goran gave had a great string of climbs! How'd you like the route? I personally really enjoyed it, a good amount of technical no-BS climbing that's pretty accessible, yet not too often is there more than one party on route. Congrats again!

Gotta be prepared for anything. And in NYC, that includes possessed women.

I agree, in wet and drippy conditions the rope freezing to the ice or in the v thread could certainly become a problem. We had nothing close to those conditions, and i doubt that they occur often, if ever, on a big mountain route. Seems that it's a problem almost exclusive to seasonal waterfall ice routes.

Regarding the rappel set ups, it seems all are good points. The reasons the set up in the picture worked well for us was: 1) dynamic rope was 8mm and tag was 6mm, not a big difference. 2) we rapped with both cords through the device, the difference in friction was negligible between the two, therefore there was no rope slip. 3) we were able to avoid the semi-time consuming process of creating a closed loop through the v-thread by simply feeding and pulling through the end on the 6mm tag (also avoided leaving and loosing the closed loops). 4) if any rope slip would occur, the heavier rope (8mm) would pull down, with the knot positioned where it was, it would not get stuck in the v-thread. Additionally, the 6mm was longer, keeping the overall distance similar. This was not a true "tag" as much as it was simply a lighter, non-climbing rope. We opted for this purely to save weight and hassle. If the route would have demanded a longer climbing rope, a single 60m would have been better. We only made two consecutive rappels once, and we simul climbed all but the first, exploratory pitch on the glacier ice. Except for the first pitch, having only a 30m rope always never limiting, and we made rappels as if we had a 60m rope - seems like the system worked very well. Using a light tag with a thicker rope (> 9.5mm) would have had issues with rope slip, but then we probably would have done the traditional tag line, and done single rope rappels vice mixing ropes with such a different diameter in the rappel device. The other option would be a longer (60m), thin rope - but you can't split that between two people for the non- technical ( except kiwi coil) and you would have a lot of extra rope to deal with. When the glaciers are more broken up, or more people, a single, longer skinny is probably better. I haven't considered (nor ever heard of) the rope freezing into the v-thread, not sure when or how that would happen - except when pulling it after the rappel, but it shouldn't matter then as your pulling the whole system out ...

OK, the cat's out of the bag. I cut the lock at the gate. We had a discussion about the options that we had, and we chose this one. Looking back, it was obviously the wrong choice; but at the time, it's the one we went with. The first two of us met the NPS on Sunday. When we came out on Monday, we met the NPS at the gate. I told the ranger I cut the lock without attempting to conceal anything. We were issued fines and citations for the violation I had originally included this information in the trip report, but did not want to turn the trip report into a report about cutting locks .... Was it a bad idea, a stupid and avoidable problem? Yes, without a doubt, a very stupid move, and one that could have easily ended up a lot worse. I am sincerely sorry for the bad example that was set, and will make better decisions in the future.

You should look into the Enchantments, its an amazingly beautiful location, and you could easily spend a few days (or longer, with a casual pace) on a loop. It's located west of Leavenworth. The Leavenworth Ranger Station issues lottery overnight permits daily at I think 7am; or you can attempt to purchase them in advance online. Hope this starts you in the right direction.

+1 ... Wetslide has an interesting perspective, though, a good effort to reduce unnecessary bailing and avoid overbuilding your bail anchor. But I agree with Pete, if you are bailing and leaving gear, its definitely booty. If you leave it somewhere else, where it was a mistake, it could also be considered booty, but you could/should make an effort to return it (and thus buy yourself some good climbing karma).

Badass, way to do it super light and fast. It looks like just about everything got climbed this past weekend.

Awesome!! Great job ticking that one off the list. Looks like lots of good stuff gave it up this past weekend.

I haven't seen an ATC used in the way shown in the pic. Putting the ATC on the end of a runner (or 2, for redundancy) instead of directly on your belay loop is a standard way to add friction for rapping. The longer the runner, the greater the friction. I don't remember when/who/how I learned the extra biner trick. It does push it further away, but it still adds some surface area, and thus friction. I had not considered placing BOTH biners through the belay loop, but you would run into issues with different sized biners (with only one through the loop the sizes are of no importance to the system). I will give the two biners through the belay loop a try next time I am in a position to want added friction. I usually use two biners for 8mm ropes and smaller, or other times when I want a little more control without defaulting to the prussik backup (such as with gloved, cold hands or doing a free-hanging rappell). Adding a sling to the system, as far as I can tell, does not increase the friction - it would only reposition the device further from your belay loop. This can increase control and safety by making it more accessible, and by improving the effectiveness of a prussik backup. The extended rappel device I find more useful in a free hanging rappel, when you will be doing many rappells in a row, tandem rappelling, or other various/specific situations (none of which were encountered by us). Pete_H : Chinese Downhill looks like it has potential. I had to google it to see what it was. How about May 10th or 11th from Camp Muir to the parking lot? I'll throw $100 for the winner. Eric - we had a secret spot to park. We sledded to a sign that advertised no more snowmobiling was permitted.