trainwreck

I remember reading this thread last month and wondering what I'd do if I broke my ankle in a fall....turns out I didn't have to wait long for my answer. Took a fall descending a snow slope on my way down Andromeda last week, caught a crampon point and broke my fibula. We splinted it and I began the long hop out. I knew (from this thread) that I was likely going to do more serious damage (I ended up tearing most of the ligaments in my ankle); but I seriously had no desire to sit passively by and wait for someone to come and get me. It was too late in the day for a chopper to rescue me and I knew that I'd be spending the night out if I didn't get moving. Eventually the wardens caught up to me and I got a snowmobile ride from the Snocoach parking lot to the bottom. I am looking at a LOOOOOONG rehab now, but I suspect that was going to be the case either way.

I find that the OR Alibi can be used about 90% of the time and in much much colder weather than people think. They'll keep your hands warm while climbing and at the belays I just switch them out for BD Ice, Punishers, or whatever I have on my harness. My only complaint is that length, I prefer gloves with a gauntlet, even for M-climbing. Right now I am really liking the BD Pursuit.

it is a big day out for sure, well worth a high commitment grade, just a lower technical grade IMO. there is lots of moderate ice, but i seriously doubt that there is any WI4 below the final tier. the ribbon pitch is too short to warrant such a grade, as is the first pitch proper (assuming you avoid the 70m WI2 at the bottom). i would go as far as WI3+ for the ribbon pitch, but nothing above that. i consider myself to be a confident WI4 leader, meaning that i should get up most/all WI4 pitches with a little whining, some fear, and a bit of a battle. i didn't place a screw until after we'd turned the pencil on the 50m pitch below the ribbon. all of the middle pitches seemed in the WI3/3+ range, but i didn't really think anything warranted a WI4 rating until then end, and even then, i thought to myself "either i've grossly underestimated my abilities or the climb is soft for the grade." since i am pretty sure of what i can or cannot climb, i'd say its soft, as would many climbers around here who feel that it should have a technical grade of WI4. just for comparison, we climbed the WW Right Hand a week after PC and i felt that we got it in good WI5 conditions (overhangy, weird bulges, steep ice, full 60m pitch) and it was miles harder than anything we'd seen on PC; even the third pitch (which i did closer to the centre) to the trees on WW was harder than anything on PC, solid WI4 i'd say. we were the first group on PC in almost a month when we'd done it, after a good cold snap and very good avy conditions. no hooks or signs of other travellers, in fact, i had to do a ton of cleaning, but it was an awesome day out. i'll have to see it in the early season and a few more times to know what the ice can look like on there, but i'd say that it is WI4.

You and I both know that there isn't anything close to WI5 until the final tier on Polar Circus, and even that can be avoided by climbing the right side. The topo I had drawn for me listed the pitches as 35m WI3, 35m WI3, 20m WI2, turn the pencil, 50m WI3, 90m WI3, (final tier, right side) 40m WI3+, 25m WI 4-. It is soft for the WI5 rating, never been to Bozeman but good know it is sandbaggy.

i place lots of pins as i climb in the Canadian rockies. i've honestly found the two smallest LAs and KBs are the ticket. i've left more LAs as rap anchors than any other piece.

Dane, never once did I say that I had a handle on 40 years of ice climbing evolution, only my take on it as someone keenly interested in Rockies climbing history. My impressions are obviously subject to the fact that I've not been in the game for very long. That said, I am not going to argue with someone who climbed with JL pre- and post-Slipstream about conditions on the route, nor am I going to sit here and tell you that I know that the Forrest Molljnars were the tools he used. JL gave the tool to Wendy Wacko during the filming of 'Challenge the Rockies' when he worked on it as a rigger, she then gave it to Dana saying that it was JL's tool on the FA of Slipstream. On second look, they may be the Serac Sabres if thisis the tool you're talking about. I will get a picture to confirm. About the WI6 finish, it is possible that something of nature formed once and once only, Ice Porn is a great example of that. The summer of its FA it was a huge waterfall, which in turn became a WI5 pillar which dessicated over the winter and now is nothing more than a scary looking white streak on the NF. In the 2nd Ed. of Waterfall Ice, Albi Sole makes no mention of a direct finish and says to escape via seracs on the right, I am assuming that he got that beta from you. As far as my theory that the seracs have retreated, we'll have to agree to disagree. Granted, I only have pictures and descriptions to work with, but I've seen little to no serac debris at the base of Slipstream in the years I've been working out there. I've also seen little to no serac fall during that time. I have seen cornices break and massive avalanches come off, but they're a different sort of hazard than we're talking about. Even the ice of the serac is off white/grey in colour rather than the blue we'd normally see if the serac were super active, this leads me to believe that it is 'relatively' stable. If you take a look at For Father (Marra/Schnugg) further along the NF of Snowdome it looks like a very active serac band (bright blue), same if you look down the EF towards Borderline; the seracs above Slipstream and Aggressive Treatment seem to have "mellowed" (I use the term loosely) from how they're described in the early 80's. Further to that, routes like Ambivalence Falls in the Diadem Creek drainage were said to have scarily overhanging seracs on the FA, they simply aren't there anymore. Slipstream is on my radar and was in fine shape two weeks ago, perhaps I'll have some pics to show you in the future so that we can discuss the matter further. To make an addendum to my post about WI5/6 climbing and the number of screws; I simply meant that climbing a full 60m pitch of WI5/6 with less than 10 screws is not something that I would be comfortable doing. Normally, I climb with 14-16 screws on pure ice, that leaves me 12 for a 60m pitch. One screw every 5m isn't overly sewn up. While I recognize the time on a pitch can dictate the safety margin (too many screws = more time to get pumped out) I don't feel as though topping out a long lead with pumpy hands/forearms above long runouts is in good style or all that safe. Also, if the posters would note my other caveat "perhaps when I further refine my steep ice technique;" which, in essence, is meant to say that I, by no means, am an expert WI6 leader. Anyways, love this thread.

I love a good climbing discussion. Too bad we didn't have more time to chat when you were in my area Dane. Very enlightening stuff. Now you know that I am as new school as they come, I started climbing 4 seasons ago, at the height of the bolt protected, M-climbing, leashless revolution - pre-Nomic, post-Quark ergo. I know that this informs my opinions, but I have also had the great pleasure to learn from one of Canada's finest pure ice and alpine climbers. He is my mentor and one of my best friends, I take his opinions on the state of alpine climbing in the Rockies seriously. I agree that the biggest difference today is actually with the screw technology. Getting screws in isn't that much effort and knowing that they'll hold changes how we climb above them. Having fallen on two in my short career (one was a 20 footer, fully ripped a Screamer; the other was a 15 footer, no Screamer, still held) gives me the confidence to climb above them. I still believe that falling on ice is a big no-no; but I would say it's more akin to falling on trad gear in limestone. By that I mean, the gear will in all likelihood hold, but it isn't something that you really want to test out. I think the major difference is in the attitude that people have towards potential falls now. In the past, you had to worry about the placement as well as the fall, now you just have to worry about the consequences (broken ankles, etc) of a fall. Screamers have helped immensely in that regard too. Marc- if you've never placed 15 screws in a pitch it means you've never lead anything in the WI5 and above range or climbed on suspect ice. Sometimes equalizing two or three screws to protect a set of moves is prudent. A 60m pitch of steep to vertical ice will eat screws in a hurry. A screw every 4m is pretty well sewn up, but the ease that they can be placed with now makes it a reality. Even 10 screws on a 60m pitch means large run outs between pieces and huge fall potential (12m plus rope stretch is giant IMO). As far as tools go; once the light and fast ethic was firmly entrenched (thanks in large part to Mugs, MFT, Steve House et al.) the need for certain tools shifted. For example, one no longer needs a straight tool with an adze if they aren't planning on chopping a platform for a tent. Your ice tool will work well enough to chop the occasional stance. As far as hammers go, no self respecting alpinist in the Canadian Rockies would leave home without it. Routes like the Shooting Gallery, due to rising standards, have become standard fare for the novice alpinist. There is a plethora of information about the route out there (as well as fixed gear) and we are now able to pare down the kit further. What I find interesting about Walsh's picture is that it is the second who is climbing with Nomics, JR was most likely using Quarks. Most parties either simul the upper couloir or solo it, no real need for an adze there. The Shooting Gallery is also a walk-off down an easy snow slope (not that I need to tell you), nothing that would necessitate a spike. Also, you know as well as anyone that plunging in Rockies snow doesn't require a spike, there is little to no security in it anyway, slightly better balance perhaps, but plunging the shaft of your tools in our crappy snowpack certainly isn't going to prevent a fall. I've never been to Alaska or the PNW so I can't much about their value in other regions. Routes like A-Strain and Asteroid Alley still require a hammer, if not a separate pin hammer. Dana rarely climbs without a dedicated pin hammer and he uses the new Vipers. He finds that the effort required to hammer with new radically curved tools costs more than the weight of bringing a pin hammer. When he, Eammon, and Jay Mills were on the Wild Thing last spring he had his hammer with him. I've considered doing Asteroid Alley with my Nomics and a hammer; but A-Strain or the GCC would need "proper alpine" tools. I guess that's where we start to differ. Cobras, Quarks, Vipers and the like are, in my mind, alpine tools. Their development and genesis may have come from waterfall ice climbing, but their applicability to V, 5.9, A2 routes is obvious. As far as pure WI lines go, like Slipstream, Nomics would work as well or better than any other tools. One thing to remind ourselves of is that when you and the other old schoolers were doing routes like that, v-threads were non-existent. Today there is no need to chop bollards (scary!), place conduit (which I've never properly understood) or hammer pins on pure ice lines. Polarity (read: Ice Porn) was rapped entirely off v-threads, something that was unthinkable back in the day. Dana has one of John Laughlin's ice tools from the FA of Slipstream. He used [img:center]http://www.coolclimbing.com/images/ice/equipment/mollnirhammers01.jpg[/img] these. We marvel at how he was able to climb the final WI6 pillar with them, because I would be SCARED. Short and no spike, not particularly good for plunging; seems a lot like the Nomic to me. Different tools for different applications I suppose. Now...onto leashless climbing... I have to respectfully disagree with you on this Dane. Two of Canada's top F16 pilots (Dana and Eammon) still use leashes almost all the time, only Raphael has moved away from them entirely. I don't think anyone can say that they aren't setting (or at least maintaining) the standards up here today and worldwide. You're right leashless, hammerless, adzeless ascents are still limited to roadside routes, but what constitutes a 'roadside' route has changed (see Ueli Steck on Colton/MacIntyre). For 'serious alpine routes' or long pure ice routes the vast majority of climbers are still leashed. Will Gadd says as much in his book and I don't think things have changed since it was written. The difference I see is in the regular punters like myself who climb predominantly leashless but still move back and forth between the two. Most people start out learning to climb without them and refine their technique accordingly. I don't see using leashes as a step backward, I see it as part of the evolution, the more comfortable you get and the more efficient your technique becomes, the less you need them. In my experience, leashes make it easier to sew pitches up because they make placing screws easier. Once you're in the habit of dropping your hands to shake out, you can do it just as easily with leashes as without. The major benefit to leashless climbing is the 'out of the box' thinking that it teaches people. It is easy enough to unclip from an android and match your hands on a traverse, or simply not use them until you start to feel your forearms/hands pumping out. I did it not too long ago on Polar Circus and it worked splendidly. I understand that many people can climb WI6 or 6+ leashless and that is their perogative, in my experience it is easier to do so with leashes, utilizing a combination of leashed and leashless techniques. Perhaps when I further refine my steep ice technique I'll make the switch fully to leashless, until then WI4 and under is done leashless, anything above (on lead) is done leashed. TRing and seconding is always done leashless so that I can move my hands around the rope. Drytooling (alpine or bolted M-climbing) is a different story altogether. I climb almost exclusively leashless except for a Grivel double spring leash. I find that it requires more versatility in technique than pure ice climbing and for that I need to be able to match, switch hands, and place gear with either hand; you have to work with what the route gives you rather than applying technique to the route (like in pure ice climbing).

that ST thread is my idea of heaven. Dane, you just made my week! btw- I still don't understand your infatuation with Walsh's photos of the Shooting Gallery. I know I am way new school compared to you, but it seems like a perfect route for them. No pin placements, low angle ice in the upper couloir, and a short crux. Care to explain why it is a seminal moment for you, in terms of how it changed your perceptions about modern tools and their applicability in the alpine? edit- I still have a use for leashes. I have and use Nomics regularly, but my Cobras (retro fitted with a pommel) and Androids still make up my alpine rig. In fact, I recently did my hardest pure ice lead to date wearing leashes; after building strength climbing predominantly leashless I find that leashed climbing at my limit (in terms of steepness and length of pitch) is safer and more in control. YMMV.

if you are talking about the tombstones, i would LOVE to see some pics. i have been thinking about making a trip up there to give them a try. as far as the thread goes - blue water are tops in my books. i have been using the 8.6mm doubles for a few years on ice, alpine, and trad. my partner just got a pair of the ice floss 8mm and they are also pretty sweet. i love single pick sheaths.

O'RLY? pics anyone?

love the thread, Dane! fyi, the NF of Geikie also went free in 06 when Dana Ruddy and Dave Marra did it in a two day push. two Brits also climbed it that year but no idea if they did it free. Asteroid Alley never had any aid, it is a IV 5.9 route, and Shooting Gallery is actually a Grade III, (IV to the summit which NO ONE does). the A-Strain was freed by Joe Mackay in the late 80's via the offwidth that Blanchard traversed around.

cool! i am super pumped that you guys posted this. i am opening the icefield info centre in less than a week and needed some recent conditions. you actually got pretty decent ice on the crux as you actually got to place some screws, too bad about the upper couloir as it is some great low angle ice climbing. the a-strain will be in from now until mid june, then it is best to stay off until mid to late august depending on the season.

sorry if i came off rude. just wanted to clear up a few things about those pics. raph, eammon, and dana all use BD rigs. i am not sure about pete takeda. raph is also the only one who has completely switched to leashless in the alpine as far as i know. as far as adzes go, i've just never really found a use for them on alpine climbs. i guess that makes me new school, but i ran quarks with an adze and hammer for two seasons and pretty well never used the adze for its intended purpose. i found the picks worked well enough for cutting steps or seats and i have never tried leveling a tent pad as i don't like sleeping on routes. my point about brazeau soloing was more to say that they were intending to not stop on the ice and so an adze to cut a seat or step would be superfluous, especially if they were planning on M-climbing the headwall. anyways, i apologize if what i said came off harsh, if you are ever at the icefield centre stop in and say hello!

i just want to clear up a few things about the pics that dane posted. 1.) the shooting gallery does not require a hammer because there is nowhere left to place pins on it. there is a fixed two knifeblade anchor (as of last june) at the bottom of the crux and nothing else around (i.e. no cracks) for someone to place a pin. the crux and upper couloir will either take ice screws or nothing, no rock gear at all. so nomics on that route aren't that big of a deal. 2.) the pic of raph climbing the crux of Kitchener's Grand Central Couloir has nothing to do with nomics. everyone on that climb was using BD tools (with hammers!) 3.) if you're soloing the entire ice portion of the NF of Alberta what purpose would an adze serve? i am climbing on nomics for pure ice and mixed. they are some seriously amazing tools, for what it is worth, i use bd cobras (no adze) for my alpine/mixed climbs that require piton placements.

the guy in that video is Paul Valiulis, he died a month ago free diving in the caribbean. his sense of humor is unmatched, especially for a ACMG guide. he will be missed by many. he's got two more videos on youtube as well; one is the FA of a seriously sandbagged M9+ called 'G-sus' and there is a great one of him and ken wallator (a local legend) climbing pilsner pillar or nemesis or something. edit- sean elliot is the climber on G-sus, not paul.

the north face of athabasca is an easy III; don't even try to argue that it is III+/IV. the rock step is one body length, maybe two, so it is at most 5m. barry blanchard re-rated the crux at 5.8/M4 this spring which is fair, it is like five moves to mantle up into the upper gully so pretty easy for the grade, especially with the fixed pins. the grade IV's in the rockies are considerably harder than the north face of athabasca; the shooting gallery is an "easy" IV and the crux is twice as long, steeper, and is very poorly protected except in the spring when there is ice to place screws. you guys had about as good of conditions on the face as you can have; and i should know, i watched you climb. edit- i should also mention that athabasca is in Jasper National Park, not Banff.