pink

was he ten feet tall, have eyes of fire and golden tooth?

Wrong, he created it perfect with free will. We decided to make the mess. Good read would be "Paridise lost" 'freewill" is a great song, i didn't know god composed it.

but doesn't god already know the outcome?

inside information, i wouldn't waste my time. there's just enough people on this site who think your a dolt and just offer it up.

i don't know, but i'd say he got an A+ at the science fair.

before wind shirts and nuetrinos

well god sure created a mess when he created us assholes.

I belive it has something to do with being not only all powerfull but also all knowing. (I can't find the right spelling for this word) If you are short in any of these areas then your judgement can be off. i'm thinkin gods judgement might be a little off if he created us. in other words... those that are different are wrong no, that would be the christian way of thinking. i happen to make judgement calls every day. and every time i look at a resume and hire someone for my business i judge and i get judged, but i'm ok with that. i judge, but i don't claim that i don't. a lot christians i know judge but preach differently, and believe me i live in christian central, hell focus on the family is in my back yard. but no, your statement is off. your only wrong if you think your right and i'm just passing time on this spinning ball and don't care what you believe in. as long as you follow the last five commandments your doin better than most, and your alright by me.

Judge this. is it hard for you to believe that a non democrat might think that religion is slightly destructive?

I belive it has something to do with being not only all powerfull but also all knowing. (I can't find the right spelling for this word) If you are short in any of these areas then your judgement can be off. i'm thinkin gods judgement might be a little off if he created us.

FAITH + ONE

You should like him, he's married to a Kennedy. Wolve in sheep clothing. seahawks, it's weird i find myself praying lately. praying that you will go away forever. please god, please.

How is calling someone a cocksucker not a personal thing? Personally, I think the rangers do a pretty good job of balancing the different interests. It does when you consider that it was a climber who tore off the nest and threw it down the rock. Granted, this occurred after they started the closure and it was several years ago, but it did nothing to strengthen our case. i don't think kevin was speaking of the rangers. rbw if anything has caused the nest to fail it would be the great horned owl that also lives on beacon rock. back in '95,'96 was one season i know the nest failed i saw that owl out there on numerous occasions monitoring the birds and climbing after the rock was opened. the falcon has two enemies, eagles and falcons and there are both of those out there. the owl sleeps down behind the column at "beacon towers" which is right where borderline starts. rbw, where did you get this information about a climber throwing a nest of the ledge? can you produce the name of the climber, and do you have a witness to this occurrence? as far as i know there never was a "nest" that the bird had built. falcons are notorious for choosing ledges with bowl like features so the eggs don't roll out. the nest is a scrape or depression dug in gravel on a cliff ledge. they will lay eggs right onto the hard rock which is proly why the weak egg shells were cracking so easily under the weight of their bodies. i would like for you to pm me and tell me who told you this information and who you heard the climbers was. it sounds like someone is making this stuff up being i was first person to visit the nesting site after the initial closure and there was no traditional bird nest. were not dealing with robins here these are not traditional birds. and no i didn't throw any nest of a ledge. in fact the birds were laying there eggs right on broken glass that was proly thrown down by hikers from above.

that's beautiful

why is it that god can judge but we can't?

thanks mattp

what's the name of the guy who used to own it? i want a copy for my office wall

you didn't, but that's the spirit. show me some more wrath you little sinner. sin your little heart out and then drop to your knees and all will be good.

i'd like to see a copy of that agreement. i wonder if it is public domain?

well maybe there is some clause about closing the rock period. climbers are a user group just like hikers.

matt, i don't disagree with the closure. it's not a matter of working with the climbers. it is a matter of fact. i love birds/nature i'm a frickin trad climber FFS. to bad the climbs are considered to be part of that original deed. hey matt, do you know the name of the private owner who deeded the property to the state and know if any family members could be contacted?

mr. matt, i'm a big fan of the rangers at beacon and if you take notice, i spoke nothing of the rangers and don't think they closed the rock to begin with. the rangers just enforce the rules the last time i checked. also, i was the one who stated that yes the falcons get pissed when you get near their young, but so do a lot of animals. you just said that the birds get spooked in general and i thought i might add to that by saying i have had different experiences being every situation is different, and i am pretty cued in on the situation at beacon being i used to climb the rock a couple hundred times a year and i'm being modest when i say that. i don't think the audabon society has it in for climbers, but the boat dock offers some pretty easy viewing of beacon rock. hell i should be a gold member of the audabon society with the glimpses i have been privileged to. btw, i don't disagree with the closure at this point. i disagree with the trail being open being it passes right above the nest and you can throw debris down into it. it's just more inconsistent government bullshit that sad to say i becoming tolerant to. and matt would you believe that climbing used to be a use pattern out at beacon before they found out the birds were there. the birds had been there for about eight years before the biologist ever got wind of it. i climbed there two/three seasons with the birds and they didn't seem to mind. just saying.

Thanks for the heads up. By the way, I saw a Peregrine in the parking lot next to my office the other day. Cool bird. I've recently learned a little more about their habits and a guy from the Audubon Society convinced me that the fact that they nest in urban Seattle, or even that they could get used to hikers on a nearby hiking trail, does not mean they won't be spooked or even mortally stressed by rock climbers. It is all situation dependent and it could be the case that the closure at Beacon is broader than it needs to be but there is no easy way to know. Good luck with the monitoring, Joseph. the falcons don't become stressed when they are used to the climbers, they get pissed when you get to close to their nest and they will crack their own eggs because the use of ddt has made their eggs weak. " *DDT was originally created in 1873. Only when its use as an insecticide was discovered in 1939, however, did it come into widespread use. The scientist who made this discovery was awarded the Nobel Prize in 1948. After World War II, it became especially popular due to its effectiveness against mosquitoes that spread malaria and lice that carried typhus. The World Health Organization estimated that 25 million lives were saved because of its use. Problems soon surfaced, however, as many insects began to develop resistance to the insecticide. It was also discovered to be highly toxic to fish. Because it does not break down easily, DDT builds up in the fatty tissues. Animals that ingest it, carry it for some time. It takes an animal eight years to metabolize one half of the DDT it consumes. Birds, like the bald eagle, ingested DDT after eating contaminated fish. The DDT caused the bird's egg shells to be brittle and thin and to break easily. Eggs often were broken in the nest when the parents sat on them during incubation. This was one of the reasons populations declined to dangerous levels. DDT was banned in the United States in 1973, although it is still used in other parts of the world. Birds that migrate to other continents are still at risk." primary source: University of Oxford, Department of Chemistry i like the part how the guy was awarded the noble peace prize for discoverd the use for this shit. fucking scientist matt, i climbed around these falcons for years at beacon before they found out they were there. the birds used to fly up and sit 10 feet away from me and just check me out. they like any other animal including humans get freaked when you get near their young. if human activity really stressed them out mortally they wouldn't build their nest underneath busy bridges with only a few feet separating them from heavy traffic. the audabon society would love to replace your activity with theirs, a bunch of blue haired bird watchers waiting to croak. all of beacon rock should be shut down just not the south face. one day me and my partner rapped down to the ledge where they nest and i threw down some rocks from the hiking trail . the rocks landed in and around the nest, but yet the trail still remains open. why? well because beacon rock state park wouldn't be much of a state park if that trail was closed. it's all about government validated positions, IMHO.