tradclimbguy

Who cares whether you care if I liked it or not. Now thats some weak sauce for ya!

Good TR. Nice to see one even if you didn't make it to the top. It will just make it better the next time you travel up there and hammer out the entire route. Sometimes I think it's almost more fun that way. Heck, half the FA's never happened in an afternoon anyway. It's only nowadays with all the topo's and bolted belays we get the advantage of running so many of the classics in quick single day pushes. You are such a whiney little git. I'm seriously suprised you ever even make it out of the gym. Hahaha. I actually agree with kevbone on this one. Ho hum to an ok finish with crappy walk off. Doesn't make for a 5 start in my book either.

ok, fine. I guess if we really want to be nit picky on "moderate splitter" then OS would qualify. Just seems like a lot of hoopla for a mediocre climb overall. How about the last pitch on Great Norther Slab whatever that's called. Thats a great splitter closer to home without an approach or the BS first pitches. Breakfast of Champions is another splitter that is awesome and Thin fingers has the best splitter section I can think of, but neither have the alpine or exposure in it, so different animals to compare. I'd say Calculus crack in Squamish far outweighs OS and so does Exasperator, both of which are moderates but not in Washington. I'd say OS is probably the most exposed alpine setting climb that has some splitter in it, just not something to really cheer about. I don't know, sorry I trashed on OS. I'll go back to my hole and try to forget I ever mentioned it didn't seem like the 5 star route everyone gives it

Let me elaborate. I had heard the climb was 5 stars, best in washington, perfect 2 pitch splitter, yadda yadda yadda. You walk up to the crag and see this splitter too which looks amazing and get all amped up for it. I'd also heard the rest of the climb was just mediocre and people really only deal with the initial pitches to get to those last two. So needless to say I was looking forward to two perfect splitter pitches to finish on at the top but I had a lot of hype and expectations going into the climb that didn't get met. Yes the top 2 pitches have more or less one continuous crack but it's not the splitter I imagined in my head. I'd give those two pitches about a 3 star out of 5 and the rest of the climb 1 or 2 for pretty good quality climbing with varied pitches. As for the setting, yes its great!!! The pitches are good just not 5 star. My opinion only though. First headwall pitch is a little face climbing to a wandering thin hands crack with chicken heads that eventually turns into the splitter you see in the pictures. The second pitch was so moderate and broken up though I couldn't figure out why they considered it much of a splitter. Just an "ok" pitch that happened to have a crack on it between the chicken heads. Anyway, don't want to drag anyone down. The route is absolutely great and well worth a visit in there. Not on my radar as a route to bother with 50 times like I've heard people say but it's good. The hype is most likely what ruined if for me though. If I hadn't heard such amazing reviews I would have probably been pleased with the route and given it a better rating. Comparing it to other things I've done though it just isn't 4 stars or "The best rock climb in Washington"...

No. There are some nasty slings left over down the first gully of the descent. We did see an anchor of some sort off to our left from I think the 5th pitch. I'd never do it, but a rap line down the face would be pretty nice. You could get down in probably 4 easy rappels and be setup to run the face a couple more times. That descent sucks. It's just too much focusing for me for too long trying not to trip Then again I'm old.

We just hit OS last Sunday. Beautiful sunny day but a bit chilly. The approach is clear. One or two patches of snow to cross but the logs are there across the stream so all is good. The route is completely dry, no water anywhere on the route really, just a small patch of snow at the base to scramble across. The walk off is also completely bare too. We changed to tennis at the top and did the scramble without issue although for such a popular climb I'm always surprised at how crappy the descent is. As for bolts we only found 3 total. 2 make up the crappy anchor at the top of pitch 1. One of which is a crappy button head, the other a small nasty bolt too. Then the third bolt is on top of the pillar you climb to get into the headwall pitch. We belay about 10ft left of the pillar with small finger size gear but the bolt is good to protect your second up the other side of the dihedral. You can use a #3 and a 3.5 but don't really need them. The headwall pitches really aren't that good in my opinion either. There is one splitter hand section thats really only the last third of the first headwall crack. I'm probably spoiled though on good climbs but I'd give the whole thing about a 2 out of 5 stars. Either way it's a fun outing. We had two #2's and that was more than enough but I might run things out a bit more than I should. We brought half a rack of nuts but didn't set any and doubles in finger to hand in cams. We planned to do OS and Orbit but got stuck behind a slow team too. The wall would go easily in a few hours but when you get crowded on the belays its tough to keep the pace up. Lots of ticks too. Use a bit of deet and do tick checks and you'll be good. Have fun.

Go find out for yourself, buddy. Route doesn't exist anymore. Prove it fucko Don't worry about it Mr. Mt Matt, the route wasn't really worth the day anyway. There used to be a topo of it that was pretty good too made up by another guy I used to know. You could probably find and read that, it would give you about as much excitement as the route.

CBS is right, you can also get there from the bottom. I've gone both ways a number of times and usually drop in from the top since you also walk right by the Power Line wall and can check out who's there and if you feel like getting on that too. If you were at the powerline wall looking up at the cliff, the trail is to your right and goes up then cuts left across the top, then up and right over to where you park. All you have to do is make it to the Powerline wall but continue down the trail hugging the right until the trail breaks off and traverses over to the orange wall. So yes, the orange wall is right below the powerline wall, not sure of the cirque Arete climb though, I'm not familiar with that name.

Drive to the top of Erie and park at a small pull out on the right just before a hard left that leads to the final parking lot. That small turn around faces toward the two lakes and the sound. Facing west looking off Mt. Erie walk west then North toward the power lines and a cliff. You'll work above the cliff then down and around that noll back under the lines on a trail. Basically wander down and around the cliffs and continue following the trail down past the power line wall which is on your right as you walk down hill. You'll end up eventually dropping directly below the power line wall and end up at the Orange wall. You pass one very dirty slabby cliff on the way to the orange wall and finally have to take the trail right to get to the orange wall. About as clear as mud.

First of all, I don't believe that there is a "climbing community". Who would you include? Every kid who attended a birthday-party at a rock gym and ran out to buy a pair of climbing shoes at the REI? At one time there probably was such a "community", but ever since climbing has been mass-marketed via "sport-climbing" and the gyms, everyone and everybody seems to be a climber. Secondly, Index isn't the issue here (although it has its own problems with bolted cracks and such); sport-bolting in the mountains/wilderness is. I think we have a climbing community, maybe not what you are thinking but wouldn't you consider you and your personal climbing friends a "climbing community", I would. If I fixed up an approach trail, picked up garbage at a local crag, maybe cleaned off a mossy climb at Index I'd say that would be helping out the climbing community whether it was just for me and my buddy the next time we showed up. And don't get so high and mighty on keeping on topic especially when you yourself blabber on about I-freaking-90 and Iraq. I'm not arguing about bolted cracks at Index, thats just you trolling... How about I revise my comment yet again, maybe this time vague enough to make a point... Tradclimbguy's edited comment for rain doggy: "If you have that much time to waste go do something positive instead" End of Story.

Well said. Thanks, but you forgot the most important part of my quote. If you have that much time go do something useful or positive for the climbing community. PM me and I could give you a big list of Index climbs that could really use some TLC. All that damn moss is taking over

Ahhh boy, here it goes again. If you have the time to go chop a route with so many bolts you've got too much time on your hands that could be better spent cleaning good routes up at index that could use some attention. hint hint hint. I guess this is it for this thread... time for all the spray masters to take over and start the bitching and moaning fest that is likely to ensue. So... Continue with the whiny drivel... We all love reading the same old crappy argues anyways.

Damn doood. What held you up? I did it in 3:30 with 21 draws and only pitched out one or two pitches. Gaper. Hahaha. I'm old, thats my excuse. 4hrs isnt that fast either, but if thats bragging and you go slower then haha on you! oh, and did I say 22 draws I meant 20 to beat your 21, hehe. You guys crack me up. Naaah, doesn't matter how fast you do it. My wife and I would average about 30min a pitch and probably spend the entire day on the thing, but if you simul the hole thing 5 pitches literally turns into 20 minutes or so. Just imagine running up a steep slab with a bit of juggy steeper climbing in between. And like I said others have run the thing in about an hour and I don't think pitched anything out. It's all good. The climb was fun. Not my normal foray but I do remember thinking it was kind of a cool spot to be in half way up this big slab of rock that you otherwise wouldn't bother getting on.

You need two ropes to rappel. I wouldn't trail a line though, just pack the smallest rope you have in one of the bags and lead on the other however you want. simul, pitch it out, doesn't matter. We hit pitch 15 in just over an hour then sat for our buddies to catch up and finished the rest in under another couple hours. We simuled it kinda funny but just took our thin 60 and doubled it in half and simuled a long 30m line. With so many bolts you can pick and choose which you want to clip. Like I said the slab pitches can be done without meeting up and about 20 draws if you clip a bolt every 15 or 20ft. Big ledges allow you to meet up and tear off again quickly. The guys that did the route in about 45 minutes did it with a single gym rope about 60ft long But then they did the walk off which apparently sucked really bad and simul a bit more run out than I like.

It's an 'ok' route (props for all the work bolting, but I'm not getting into that battle). Definitely not a 10 by any means. More like endless over bolted 5.6-5.8 with a few section bolted I think to show you the way, hahaha and a few sections with zero bolts to be spiteful when rapping Actually it's so "infinite" on the 5.6 moves I got bored climbing for a while now that I think back. It's kind of like stair climbing up a route if that's possible. hehehe You finish with a couple good pitches but not 5.10, ok, maybe 5.10- if its wet and in the fog. Don't forget the one bolted pitch that has so many bolts you could z-clip every bolt if not careful, 17 if I remember right? aka skip-a-clip pitch. We did the route in just under 4hrs with 22 draws and simuled all but two pitches or three spots on the route. The raps to get off suck but I've heard hiking down the back is waaaay worse from a buddy who did it. The routes been done now in I believe less than an hour if that gives you any info. The first 5 slab pitches can be done with about 20 draws without meeting up until you get to a gulley pitch, although some small gear might be good if its wet and you have to avoid the bolt line like we did. One fix to the route to make rapping safe and it would be more classic for the common bolt clipper to get a taste of "alpine" climbing, but I doubt I'll ever bother to walk up to it again. Edit: HELMET bring a helmet please... Lots of loose rock that likes to fall about a million miles an hour past your head while running the route. Had a chunk of something warp by me then watched the basketball size rock pinball down the gulley. Yikes!

If you are like us and forget your pass expired on the way. Get off at exit 84 in Cle Elum and turn into the Safeway parking lot and complex. Right next to safeway there is: Cle Elum Hardware & Rental (509) 674-2700 811 W Davis St Cle Elum, WA 98922 I bought mine there last year for 12 bucks or something.

I do in fact blame snow boarders as the main factor in the destruction of good moguls. While some of you boarders can cut nice turns I'd say a huge percentage slide sideways on their ass down the hill or go back and forth across an entire run destroying the few good lines that once existed. I will, however say that crappy skiers add to the problem, but not nearly as much. If you don't believe which I'm sure you don't, grab a pair of skiis and take a trip to either Park City or Deer Valley. Upon arrival you will find long never ending runs of moguls and why you ask??? Skier only resorts. Both of those places still only allow skiers and funny thing is they still have wicked mogul runs even with the parabolic skiis everyone has. Rules to live by: "Short Skiis suck and Don't eat yellow snow." -Glenn Plake

I understood the question, I still think your ONLY option is to replace an apple with an apple and an alien with an alien, then again maybe you'd like an orange or a side of hashbrowns Forget adding stops to the aliens, its a design used only when the cam isn't properly loaded and doesn't even work if you aren't lucky and the cam jams on the way out of the crack. I guess I just worry about placing the cam tight enough or slotting it like a nut that I don't care about having stops. If my placement is undercammed I consider it marginal whether its an alien or BD and don't plan on the BD sticking just cause of the stops. Truly I don't think you've got an option here. Zero's don't go big enough and while I have lots of TCU's they don't flex and grip the same as the aliens for horizontals. I guess I just see all the crap thats happened with CCH as total BS by a lot of people who don't know what they are doing. Compared with 90% of the garbage I led on back in the day even the "defective" aliens kick way more ass, I'm just sick of people dumping on them probably because I luv em soooo much

Another Orange Alien, duh.

They just kept going on and on about it. I didn't think it was serious so I kept watching until I realized it was really going to just keep going for another hour!

Yep. I think I just got dumber watching that for 3 minutes, my brain hurts now.

Does this mean I'm going to have to start getting tatted up to fit in at the crags? Climbing hasn't written even it's non-youth geared articles well for some time. Anyone read the article about the speed ascent on Native Son. I was all excited to read it but then made it about a paragraph into the article before getting so pissed I nearly burned the issue. They basically said that not only could near total noobs run up it but so could a bunch of half baked guys in EB's with a few nuts on their rack (ie. Bridwell and crew)??? I was like WTF, way to diminish some of the biggest climbing accomplishments in our lifetime. If you want a good article go read this: http://www.alpinist.com/doc/ALP18/jim-bridwell-birds-eye-view

My wife and I did that one last summer with another couple. I'd been avoiding it for some time hearing it was total crap, but it turned out to be pretty good I thought. We did Diedre and a couple more pitches right above that into the forest. I didn't think the hike in between was too bad but next time I might try the slab pitches further right and see if i can't eek out just a little more climbing between hiking. The second part of the climb was nice and mellow I thought. It had tons of bolts and good pro throughout. A few of the upper pitches were a lot of fun although on the easy side. We ended up doing both finishes, the 11a wasn't bad at all but it wasn't great. I hit the top and lowered back to the belay cleaning on the way down, then lead the traversing 10 which ended up being way better in my mind (5 stars finish). I wouldn't rate it above some of the other classics though and I didn't really think it went at 5.9 but more like easy 5.10 on some of the lower bolted pitches, especially if you are short there were a couple long reaches for a 5.9. Then again I hear they rated it 5.9+ just so more people would get on it since a lot of people shy away from anything in the 10 range, whatever. I'd probably do the climb again, but in my mind it wasn't worth doing that much. I guess you can get 20+ pitches in although I think we did it in around 16 with a few simul pitches tossed in, whatever felt good. I'd say it's about the same as the squaw or angles crest and I'd tack it in at number 3 in that list. On the slightly harder tick list I'd say Freeway followed by the chief and then Millenium Falcon would round out the top. If you feel like you can tackle a few moderate 10's I'd recommend MF way way way over UE. And with MF you can even walk off at BellyGood and avoid a couple nice 11 slab pitches that are well bolted if slab aint yo thang. There is my diatribe, can you tell I must need to go climbing

JohnGo has a good one there if you only want to bring one rope, but I'm not sure about the extra sling in the system? JohnGo, why do you need the sling??? Just put the knot in the rope so one climber has 10ft or so of rope from him to that knot and the other has 15 or 20. You just need enough rope to each so that the belayer is essentially belaying the knot up allowing the bottom climber to fall and hopefully not pull the second off. I would however say this is probably more dangerous though as the followers need to realize that a fall will most likely pull the two of you off. It's kinda like simul climbing for two followers; ie. Don't fall! I did this in a team of three up Slesse and it worked very well. It was however on extremely easy ground which is 99% of the climb. We also used double lockers to tie into the rope to make switches easier and lead everything in blocks turning the route into about 11 pitches total with a good amount of simul climbing. I would vote for double ropes with a double belay, not as fast as the single rope butterfly setup but safe and easy and still faster than trailing the second line and effectively waiting for three people to climb the pitch one after another. Does everybody think this is true? I would think many people here would have double ropes. I know that me and most of my partners all have doubles. Heck each year I seem to get yet another to replace an old one or to get one thats thinner from the 9.1 to the 8.8 to the 8.5 and so on. If people don't have doubles I think they are worth while, especially for many routes with easy 60m descents or for escape.

While bolting cracks in my mind is lame, you should definitely consider the surrounding area. If you went and removed the bolts on the few cracks at the sinks or in Tensleep you'd be strung up and hung. If it's a worthy project then go for it, but if your standing on a high horse in a sea of bolted climbs and chop em just cause YOU have a rack then leave them be. Sporto's have their area too, no need to turn a classic into the never done "trad" route because nobody has anything more than 12 quickdraws. Off_White is correct on Supertopo, check out some of those threads and maybe ask a question or two over there. http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=286252&tn=20