tvashtarkatena

No. Mohammad was married to the same woman monogamously for 25 years. After her death, he took other wives. During this period, he contracted with the father of a 7 to 9 year old to marry his daughter. The marriage took place 5 years later. Such a practice was perfectly normal for the times, and indeed, remains 'normal' today; a 14 year old may marry legally, with a judges permission, right here in the good ole US of A in some states.

I never bothered to read the link. I just assumed from the title it was about the new voter restoration law in WA LOL There is a huge racial disparity in our criminal justice system; such a disparity is obviously systemic, and inextricably linked with economic, educational, and other disparities in our society. Add to that the legacy of racism in this country going all the way back to slavery and you've got one hell of a big Gordian knot. There are some low hanging fruit policy changes that would help to rectify this in the short term; drug policy reform being on the very top of the list. Nearly all drug criminalization in this country was formulated and driven using racist arguments. That continues today, in the form of things like much harsher penalties for possession of 'crack' (a poor man's drug, popular in ghettos) versus 'cocaine'.

Why should a convict who has served their sentence have to go through any process to have their voting rights restored? That very policy has created an inconsistent and capricious system in WA, which is why our state just got rid of it. Under the fairness doctrine, as well as to reduce substantial administrative waste, this right should be restored automatically. We have much better way to expend our already stretched criminal justice resources, I think...particularly with a budget deficit now approaching 10 billion dollars. Voting rights are one of many ways for a convict to rejoin the community in a constructive way. Whether that is central or not depends on the individual, doesn't it?

Obfuscating the ongoing historical development of the Middle East, the process by which a potent strain of militant Islam came into existence, and how and when people are radicalized around ethnic, religious, tribal, and national identities by pretending that the Koran is a sort of timebomb set in the 7th Century is kinda silly. read your history, prole, and take a read through the Koran. To say nothing of other faiths, Islam has from its inception been a miltant religion of conquest. It is not going away therefore the hope is it will transform itself from within to coexist with modern civil society. That might come in the form of a new testament of sorts. The old testament of the bible is largely ignored today, thankfully, for it's a frightfully barbaric tome. The Koran isn't any different yet there's a billion faithful right now who read it daily. Pretending that organized religion in general isn't dangerous, or one in particular isn't just because of your politics surrounding it demand you give it empathy- well to me that is kinda silly. That's actually pretty far from the mark. Mohammad did unify what was to become Arabia, partly through military means, partly through commerce, but he was primarily a reformer. Ironically, women's rights, for example, improved dramatically under his reign (they had none prior to it). This makes sense, as he was married to an older, very wealthy merchant who wielded much influence. It seems that Mohammad's primary focus throughout his life was to create order out of chaos to improve the commercial and social situation in his region. His followers, of course, have since splintered and morphed him into whatever their sects require at the time...just like Jebus. The whole WOT thing is not a primarily religious conflict; it is a political one. Religion is simply a tool used for recruiting. Even the Taliban, which wraps itself so famously in the Koran, is driven by the lust for absolute power more than the establishment of any kind of religious paradise on earth. Take a look at what happened after the Islamic Revolution in Iran and what I'm saying is obvious. That regime's thugs immediately began violating the Koran; officially sanctioned rape comes to mind, after they took power. The formula is simple: take a 20 year old, give him a gun, a uniform, and tell him you can make anyone who is not one of us do whatever you want. In the name of Islam, the State, Freedom whatever. The cause doesn't really matter. He'll be beating, raping, and killing The Indidels, the Gooks, or Hadji the Goatherder in no time.

I think at the core of this issue is the widespread belief, so eloquently presented by our very own village idiot Billcoe, that anyone incarcerated for any crime, even non-violent crimes like drug possession, should be 'thrown away' for the rest of their lives. Denied employment, denied basic rights, denied housing. This is the 'life-sentence-for-any-crime philosophy; once a crime has been committed, there should be no path to redemption, and no way to productively return to society. 21 year old punk carrying crack? Game over. Stole a couple of cars? Game over. It assumes that people can't change; once a criminal (and let's remember that half our prison population is in for non-violent drug offenses), always a criminal. These very same folks revel in the fact that our prison system is now a chain of overcrowded, underfunded white supremacist/gansta rape camps with virtually no rehabilitation. Essentially, it's a way for them to display their fundamental and apparently unsatisfied need to inflict cruelty...in the names of The Victims! , of course. Yeah, right. For these sorry folks, no penalty is too great for even the smallest infraction. There is no way to 'serve your time', 'pay your debt' or make restitution for what you've done. From a policy standpoint, of course, this philosophy, like other products of the Right Wing, has been a social disaster. Most most convicts are, eventually, released back to the community. Such policies virtually guarantee that they return in far worse shape than they went in, and, with no lawful survival opportunities available to them...yeah, you get the idea. That's why California's prison recidivism rate has jumped from 28% to 82% in the past 3 decades since the 'throw away the key' movement's ideas have been implemented. Brilliant. You'll also notice that these are often the very same folks who scream about their right to keep lots and lots of guns around to protect their families from the marauding homicidal zombie hordes, presumably all black, out there. Again, you get the idea. It's a syndrome, and not exactly a healthy one.

While you're in here spraying, we're out there getting stronger.

Watch our marijuana laws. They're next.

Yup. Another successful, multi-year long legislative campaign brought to a great conclusion by our very own ACLU of Washington. Prisoners who've served their time have one more way to rejoin the community as fully participating citizens. Before, the state simply assumed the power to arbitrarily deny convicts who've served their time one of the most fundamental rights of a free society. Now, the tables have appropriately turned, reducing the state's often capriciously wielded power by automatically granting voting rights to convicts who've served their time. It's now the state's burden to go through due process to prevent that on a case by case basis. Why anyone would think it's in society's best interest to prevent such a positive reintegration is beyond me as well as, apparently, the good legislators of our fine state. In my view, the less absolute power the state has over its citizens, the better. You may kiss my ring and my ass.

Oh so your Bill Mahr now? Yeah, kind of a Bill Mahr without the a) salary b) audience c) tact c) Intimate memories of Anne Coulter angrily devouring liberal cock

I'm not going to Hell. I am Hell.

That was then, this is now. The high growth local churches are all Big Box; largely a byproduct of the economic boom. Their model of big donations fueling big religious entertainment supplying the 'God will make you rich' message doesn't quite carry the same gravitas nowadays. God fucked their membership in the ass, that Bastard. These God-marts have deflated rapidly since the collapse. Add to that their overbuilding frenzy and you get many of these churches on the verge of financial collapse. The Christian agenda has largely failed regarding public policy. All heat, no light. They've been subjected to a wholesale ass raping in the courts regarding prayer in schools, ID, and discrimination against gays. It seemed as though the Kooks routed the forces of reason during the Defense of Marriage Act craze in the 90s, but those laws have proven to lack teeth; they are falling like flies in legislatures and courts state by state, often on fundamental constitutional grounds. Society increasingly gives a big yawn when confronted with 'the gay problem'. This is probably in no small part due to the coming out movement spearheaded by Harvey Milk and his contemporaries. Roe V Wade still stands, virtually untouched, after nearly 40 years of attack. Denial of funding for abortion providers is evaporating. Abstinence education is now a bad joke. The bottom line is that the conservative movement pandered to the Christian Right's agenda for votes, but largely ignored the fucking kooks. Nearly every time they've succeeded in getting a small part of their agenda passed, it runs head on into the fundamental American values of decency, fairness, privacy, and live and let live. Somehow, none of their stuff ever seems to stick when exposed to the light of day. Don't get me wrong, the Christian Right is still a major threat to basic American liberty, but that threat is on the decline after a track record of so much failure. A growing majority of Americans would prefer to emerge from the Middle Ages. In ten years, this country will look very, very different. If current, long term trends continue, it'll be a hell of a lot more socially liberal place, and no one will even think twice about how it got there.

Can we ban the phrase 'ad hominem'? There are crack whores on 90th and Aurora who are fresher.

Unsubstantiated stuff? Seems like the same thing can be said about what you are saying. And your right Catholicism may be losing numbers, but many evangelical sects are gaining numbers big time. You ask for numbers: In 1900 Africa had around 10 million Christians out of a continental population of 107 about nine percent. Today there are 360 million Christians out of 784 million, (nearly half of the population claims to be Christians). As far as China goes, most researchers (including most secular sources) estimate the number of Christians to be at around 1 million in 1949. In the past 50 years there has been a 60 fold increase in Christianity. Today there are 50 to 120 million Christians in China (120 being the high end). The largest church in the world is in Korea, over a million people! I am not denying the fact that religion is at a stand still in Europe. I should say Christianity, because Islam is growing in Europe. And yes religion still does factor into politics in Europe and the west. The events of 9/11 is a good reminder of this. Just look at the ban on Minarets in Switzerland. Expect a backlash there. But the fact of the matter is that Christianity is growing rapidly in most of the non western nations. Well, I never threw out any numbers, so it's hard to be unsubstantiated, isn't it? You failed to included the LOSS of religiosity in Europe, the latin world, and elsewhere during the same periods you mentioned, that offset the numbers you'e posted above. Such aggregate numbers, in the end, have little meaning, as they don't even begin to describe actual practice of said religions after they've been adapted to local customs. In many areas of the Andes, for example, the locals have simply taken many of their pre-Christian practices, sprinkled in a few saints (more feast days=more parties), and called it good. It looks a lot more like what they've been practicing for two thousand years or more than anything we would call Christianity in the U.S. It seems like many African cultures have done the same. Then there's the fervor of belief and practice. This has definitely plummeted right here in the U.S., for example. While many here still claim to be Christian, they do virtually nothing to observe that faith, in sharp contrast to decades past when church attendance and other formal practice was much more common than today. The truth of the matter is, a lot of people in decades past did the whole church thing for the kids. Had they not had kids, they wouldn't have bothered. We now live in a society where over half of all households are single person; not surprisingly, people increasingly aren't bothering anymore. In addition, agnosticism and atheism have largely lost their taboo status today. Other spiritual and philosophical ways of being are now accessible. Put all this together, and we have a nation that is far, far less religious than advertised by the more evangelical sects to bolster their largely failed political agenda.

Joan Rivers is funnier that hell.

We all hear how fast this and that religion is growing...unsubstantiated stuff, mostly, but how fast compared to overall population growth? Meanwhile, many religions are famously losing members by the millions; Catholism comes to mind. Many countries, Japan, Europe, etc, have abandoned religion in an almost wholesale fashion. God's will no longer even registers on their political list of issues. Not that I care. The world is fucked in the aggregate for the duration of my lifetime, I figure, but one can still have a great experience during the time allotted here.

I'm still deciding whether or not I'm sorry I missed out on this one...

Of course, I mean all that in the very best sense.

Well, it might be close mindedness, but then, growing up in Northern Cali, where you can't swing a dead yogi without hitting one of the faux enlightened, I might be somewhat less inclined to share the awe and wonder of a guy like Bug's often advertised voyage of self described apotheosis...particularly when adorned with tales of fog controlling fakirs. Whatever fills your emotional potholes, myan, but it ain't exactly the first time I've run into One who's found The Way...and who assumes you've lost yours, of course. That club footed second idea, the seat of the suburban shaman's true spirituality, never fails to shuffle behind the first, its way presumably lit by a lustrous aura that is, well, only lustrous aura deep. In this way, the So Much More Enlightened Than Thou are really no different than their raving evangelical brethren. A True Believer's credibility isn't necessarily enhanced when the Majority Rules argument is invariably trotted out; an near certainty whenever the uber open minded spiritual wunderkind trips over a bit of healthy skepticism regarding the mystical universe they've created for themselves. If I was the only atheist on the planet, I'd still be an atheist, cuz I really don't give a shit what the rest of the herd believes.

SS tapped into a modern trend: the abandonment of deist religions worldwide. Humanity is finally figuring out that a life fully lived requires no such bed time stories. Governments have become increasingly secular. Perhaps the press garnished by fundamentalism is a last gasp before humanity finally abandons the Great Big Fuzzy Kitty myth altogether and truly moves into the modern age.

RACIAL PROFILING!! RACIAL PROFILING!!! That, and I've posted about being raised Catholic several times already...hardly a 'secret', and why would it be? Nothing to see here. Move on.

One thing Tvash doesn't do is assume someone's experience; that's one of the prime indicators of ignorance, one you display often. I had a great experience with Catholicism. Went to a fine Catholic school with good teachers, our parish priest was a young, liberal Irishman (Father Pat, coincidentally) who did many good works for the community, my religious education was quite open; many other faiths and doctrines were discussed with equal respect, and there were always lots and lots of donuts around. Loving one another was the number one idea pushed, at least in that parish. I gave up belief in God because it no longer made a lick of sense. The process was little different than giving up a belief in Santa Claus. You hold on for as long as you can, but in the end, you've got to decide how much you're willing to bullshit yourself for the comfort gained. As for my attitude towards Evangelicals; I met my first real live thumper in college. What a bowl full of assholes and kooks. Since then, the evangelicals have done nothing to sway that early opinion and everything to bolster it. They are the enemies of true American freedom; far more dangerous to the positive aspects of our way of life than any cave dwelling imam.

There's the small matter of the house design itself...yeah, the old craftsman's make the vast majority of today's econoboxes (feaux...everything, anyone?) look like what they are: cheap people packing crates slapped together by a give-a-shit contractor and his crew of meth heads. Compare the siding in today's homes (yeah, that's the part that gets the weather) and tell me that shit isn't somebody's idea of a bad joke. My 1911 still has the original siding-still going strong. Um...that ain't gonna be happening for any new construction even 30 years from now, nevermind 100.

So, if you meet someone you love online versus in a bar or someplace else you're a loser? More accurately, I'd say you're an idiot.

Among the religious, there is a continual need to conflate their beliefs with other things that simply do not exist in the same universe. Religion with government. Religion with science. Religion with morality, for that matter. Wondering whether Mighty Mouse could take Superman is a more enlightening exercise. If no laws are broken, religion exists outside of government here; by design. Any specific religious doctrine should play no role in the official conduct of government. This is often tried by one sect or another (and we all know politicians love to invoke God's name to get votes), but the first amendment has actually been pretty effective at sending those who can't grasp the meaning in this most fundamental American value back to their pulpits to lick their wounds. And, in our democracy, 'the state' derives its power from its citizens; it does not and cannot exist as a separate entity. Ultimately, the state, therefore, is only as just and righteous as we are. In other words, we're royally fucked. If,by some miracle, all Americans suddenly wake up on morning as wise, responsible adults who abhor rather than relish cruelty, we still have a system which provides a path to what we could be rather than the embarrassment we currently are.

Half empty, half full. Today's worldwide communication offers just as much chance to enlighten and progress as to offend. One could easily argue that the Danish cartoon did more good than harm by exposing the insanity of religious extremism for what it is. Moderate Islamic sects all over the world have subsequently and appropriately distanced themselves from these kooks...and that is a good thing. Those who choose to cow to such zealots perhaps don't deserve the freedoms they're apparently not willing to lift a finger to protect.