Kimmo

actually, climbing can be quite "complicated"; that's part of its appeal to me. as far as it being an "art"....i kinda think it is what we make of it. marc could make it routine, like "taking out the trash", or he could put some imagination into it, and have it be something a little more. i guess i kinda feel badly for you that something you've done for so long is nothing more than "taking out the trash" (although even taking out the trash has the potential for being art).

modern crag with modern ethics. that's kinda funny! are you suggesting marc enslave himself to this "modern crag" with its "modern ethics"? sounds kinda like dwayner. but in reverse.

ok, 15 years then. does it change the equation much?

wow cramer, unexpected! i guess i now know what climbing has been for you all these years.... coulda saved yourself a lot of trouble by staying home and taking care of the domestic duties, like taking out the trash.

pretty good advice, i'd say. i would add one caveat: even if you get a ringing endorsement for bolting the thing, at least consider alternatives. this might be your chance to be a rebel, a trend-setter. look at what sonnie is doing in your neck of the woods. and remember: you don't have to dumb it down for the masses. climbing is an equal opportunity game: anyone can step up to the plate. but part of what makes it fun is the challenge. you can potentially offer up a challenge that will deeply inspire someone in the future (simply bolting up another slab will probably never do this).

never say never. all i'm suggesting is that before he commit drill to rock, consider the possibilities. be creative. really spend some time thinking about other options. that's all. especially if it's a "gem" of a climb. gems have been absolutely ruined at index and other places because of overzealous bolters after all, he calls himself a traddie!

i am beginning to think that climbing isn't much of a creative endeavor for you....

and your point is that, based on his description (which obviously does not tell anyone enough about potential creative pro being available) you will rush to judgement about the need for bolts?

tell that to marc, since he was the one soliciting advice about climbing something in a "pure style".

it's kinda funny that no one is even asking if there is natural pro available. i'm the sporto here, but maybe pope and dwayner are right....

and contrary to what some might say, tape is ok.

make sure the hooks have long runners so they don't get pulled out by tension on the rope.

try trad protection, a la hard grit climbing. sounds like the purest approach. taped-on hooks.

As if the race to the bottom labor cost and the flight/destruction of legacy jobs hadn't been enabled by widespread deregulation and consolidations into oligopolies. we need specifics. i think they are there, and it makes your case stronger.

A helpful and civil response. Thanks. My modest $$ are on the way.

dude, this is better than a bong toke anyday.

sir, i do believe there are elements in our current approach that need review. i wished simply to make sure that you weren't in favor of allowing hand-guns and osama bin laden on airplanes, without the necessary back-ground checks. i am quite sure i was not erecting a straw-man, no matter how it may have appeared to you, sir.

i do believe air-travel should be accessible by all. with no restrictions. hand-guns allowed, just like in national forests. yes sir.

why sir, i do not believe that the gentleman needs to climb the route in question to have pertinent opinions regarding said route. why, do i need to go out and clear-cut a forest to be able to speak about clear-cutting? no sir, i do not. and i do believe it is better this way.

why, you are right, sir. your large format photo has brought me to my senses. no more bolt arguments for me! and since your photo has done its work, will you be kind enough to remove it, sir.

jeebus, should israel lighten their flight security? this doesn't speak about my feelings regarding our (or israel's) FP, but i do believe that the life of innocent amerkens (and amerbarbies hah) need protecting (an israeli security specialist laughed at our measures, calling them wholly inadequate, and we moan cuz we get "inconvenienced" at the airport. sheeit, we don't know what inconveniencing is all about).

and if someone could kindly remove the offending format destroying photo above, we could all live happily ever after.

why, i do believe i am in complete agreement with you, sir.

and while we're talking about dogs (and i agree rumr) how about getting rid of pit-bulls. no more breeding of the dog, and it's gone in 10 years or so. just read of a 60 yr old dude getting offed by his daughter's pit-bulls.

yo fool: just marry a doctor.