KaskadskyjKozak

follow my link, read the statements quoted. they are indefensible. there's nothing to say. if YOU want to defend them, however, somehow, well, we can have a discussion

No, Bush invented torture. Prior to this presidency it was never undertaken on this scale and severity. Like everything else he does.

What is the exact problem you have with what he said? don't be obtuse

So, we did this before, then. Nothing new - as in Bush didn't create it? And when were they "shut down"? 4 years in the Clinton presidency? Let's here the whole story, and quit pretending Bush is the worsest, evilist president ever, and has committed all these unprecedented acts.

what word is that?

Where would you start? Who would lead the oversight committee? Who would be the one to tell the President his “executive privilege” is bullshit? Don’t you get it? The current president is above the law. This is a monarchy…….self appointed. How do you have oversight on president who tells the committee to fuck off? If that's true, then let the next president take care of the issue, roll back these "abuses" - clearly and decisively as a part of their agenda. Somehow, I don't see this happening - I don't hear it coming from the Dems, that's for sure. So, I must conclude that this matter is more politically-motivated than fact-based, or that the Dems want to torture too.

So your problem wasn't with what the "scientist" said, it was with peoples' propensity for being hagiographic towards "scientists"? Am I getting this right? No, you aren't. Obviously the story - and the issue- is what he said, and his profession is secondary. However, I'll be sure to file his name in my mental file cabinet for the next debate where someone claims scientists have no personal agendas and are pure, self-sacrificing, noble souls pursuing science and basing all their judgements on scientific evidence alone

Assuming this is actually going on as you claim, he should stop it. If he doesn't then I favor oversight on the matter - special investigation, whatever. But all I ever hear about in a serious context is the waterboarding claim. It seems there is evidence we actually do that, it is "sanctioned", and they have something there. The other examples cited don't seem to carry much weight as legitimate, otherwise they'd be what's referenced all the time, not waterboarding.

I'm interested in how everyone jumps up in arms, but doesn't address a single actual issue regarding this. Why is this? Because it's an incredibly sensitive subject (obviously). And since you capitalize "scientist" above, I assume you are attacking his inability to fathom some sort of "scientific" concept or process? Maybe you could explain what you mean? There is a propensity by certain people to put scientists on some pedestal as noble beings, self-sacrificing, and, yes, morally superior. Especially compared to ignorant, uneducated, simple folks of faith.

you couldn't find a rock?

As I said before, I pretty much agree with what McCain has said about torture. I oppose it, including the things you CLAIM happen. Problem is, you guys have cried wolf for 8 years, and, sorry, I don't believe it just because YOU say so. If it is happening and can be proved, then somebody needs to be punished for it. Indeed our next president should ensure we reverse this precedent - assuming it is true. Somehow I doubt that will happen. You can thank all the shrill Bush hatred and vitriol-spouters for my lack of faith in their veracity and willingness to follow-through on anything they claim to care about.

Riders on the Storm

Also, Electric Ladyland

The Prince of Darkness? Possibly... I haven't been to a concert in 15 years, so I don't pay attention...

What do you listen to on a day like this? I prefer Black Sabbath or the Doors.

then click on the "ignore user" feature, shit-for-brains.

I hear they use it at Micro$oft. :-)

Yes, actually it does seem to be what all the fuss is about. The other things we apparently do are sleep deprivation, long interrogations, threatening detainees that they'll never see their family again, etc. All psychological stuff. Some physical discomfort (without permanent damage). OTOH we kow-tow to Muslims at Gitmo, giving them Korans, letting them pray 5 times a day according to their practices, and feeding them according to their dietary restrictions. I have a hard time calling it humilitation and torture when folks use these techniques. Now, wearing a bomb into a public place, flying airplanes full of people into buildings full of people, and gassing subways--that is torture. When I think torture, I think of beating people with truncheons, the rack, the Iron Maiden, pulling out finger nails, applying electric shocks, dislocating joints, burning, scarring, etc. Waterboarding is nowhere near this level, but I'm not comfortable with that as an interrogation technique.

"seem to be"? "things"? Be clear man. Exactly what are we doing? Besides waterboarding, that YOU consider torture?

Yes, actually it does seem to be what all the fuss is about. The other things we apparently do are sleep deprivation, long interrogations, threatening detainees that they'll never see their family again, etc. All psychological stuff. Some physical discomfort (without permanent damage). OTOH we kow-tow to Muslims at Gitmo, giving them Korans, letting them pray 5 times a day according to their practices, and feeding them according to their dietary restrictions.

Bullshit! A couple dozen congressmen put this letter together. They represent the USA and federal authority. What they did is what I'd expect from Stalinist Russia or Goebbels. And YOU would AGREE if Republican congressman had done this.

Those insta-condos and bad urban/surban planning are the way of the future in this country, and they suck ass. They are a big reason why I moved out of the N. side. Them and the damn Lowes/WalMart/HomeDepot/megaplexes put up everywhere. It makes me want to put an arrow in the heart of every person who insists that high-density building is going to magically help traffic, global warming, community spirit, whatever. It just fucks everything up, brings in a bunch of people who couldn't afford to buy a house, and packs more cars onto the same small roads. Sucks. amen, sister.

He will not answer the damn question, because the evidence is that we have done water boarding.

Those insta-condos and bad urban/surban planning are the way of the future in this country, and they suck ass. They are a big reason why I moved out of the N. side. Them and the damn Lowes/WalMart/HomeDepot/megaplexes put up everywhere.