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I ended up paying like a 15% -20% premium over their advertised price on a Brio 50 cl backpack, once I paid high shipping costs plus membership fee. However, the pack was advertised at C$65 on close-out, so my total cost was whatever, & quality nearly equaled something like a US$200 pack among alternatives. I think the design is a little funky (but good) and quality slightly less than premium, but I'm getting to like the thing very much. ___

Very unfortunate, if true.

Don't know nothin' bout cragging in PNW but most of you guys are just being silly about the routes mostly mentioned. If you can get out and do 'em they're all pretty cool. What are the worst routes anyplace? Mountaineering mostly s**ks in a certain kinda way. ____

So are the MSR tents the same size as the Betamid tents?

That's interesting. Black Diamond site says you're right that both tents are same size, but says both are 98x 44 in. rather than your info of 98x 68 in. BD says they both have 37.4 sf of "useable" floor space. Campmor sells regular Betamid and puts it in line with REI specs., i.e. larger than the REI/BD specs for Beta Light. As I mentioned, MSR puts Twin Peaks at 55 square feet, or, 47.05% larger than Beta light, & perhaps also Beta reg. Trekker is 135.29% larger. I'd be interested in where you got your measurements and what the correct measurements are. Sorry if my "rant" offended you.

Marylou I don't know anything about it either but it's a fair assumption that fabrics do vary in both strength & abrasion resistance. Yet given nylon's remarkable strength and manufacturers' increasing adoption of Sil nylon, I too, suspect the stuff is fine. Yet interestingly, the Ouware products linked by FOA above come in three different fabrics, including silnylon, for varying durability properties, according to the site. My main point is, that the Beta Light is TOO SMALL, given available alternatives. The Trekker is a vertitable circus tent by comparison, and weighs two pounds.

Eh, well, it's the same coast. I don't take much stuff. Summer weather in NW is more stable than it gets credit for, and probably warmer in its Mts, mostly, than Calif. as the alpine in general at least, is much lower (I've never been to Sierras). Conceivably, the scree/taulus is more stable in California....

Three very similar tents: Beta Light is smallest, followed upwards by Beta reg., then ( in my view) MSR Twin Peaks, then, clearly, MSR Trekker. Beta Light is lightest, followed upward by Twin Peaks & then Trekker when you dispense with dubious insert. Beta reg. is heaviest. MSR Trekker also has two doors and is most expensive of the three (probably because of insert) Here are REI's specs for BD tents, MSR for MSR tents: Betamid: Floor dimensions 8 ft. 2in. (long) x 6 ft. 8 in. (middle) x 3 ft.8 in. (ends) Peak height 4 ft. 1 in. weighs 2 lbs. 4 oz 55 sq. ft. Beta Light is much smaller: Floor dimensions 7 ft. (long) x 4 ft. 8 in. (middle) x 3 ft. 10 in. (ends) 37.7 sq. feet "usable floor space" (? calculations suspect for both BD tents) 50.2 sf total. Weight is 1 pound, 4 ounces Peak height 4 ft. 1 in. MSR Twin Peaks is best because I own one. (Specs from MSR) 9 feet 5 inches long x 5 feet wide at each end (slightly wider in middle) Floor + Vestibule Area: 45 ft² / 2 m² Interior Peak Height: 42 in./1.1 m Weight: 1 lb. 12 oz./.8 kg Twin peaks unavailable from REI. They're pushing the MSR Trekker: 15 feet by 6 feet weighs 2 pounds without bug-screen/floor insert; 4 pounds with insert. Floor + Vestibule Area: 66 + 22 ft.² / 6.1 + 2 m² Interior Peak Height: 42 in./1.1 m Weight including insert: 4.0 lbs./1.8 kg I too wonder in passing about Sil Nylon's durability when you repeatedly heap snow on edges to seal it up, a highly effective procedure with these tents.

Yeah, well, it's not a troll exactly. I'm struck by Roper's recommendation that late-season is best for his "Sierra High Route" vs. conventional NW wisdom that stuff is easier with snow. (Roper also co-author with Steck of "Fifty Classic Climbs.") I don't like scree any more than the next guy. I've got moderate confidence in my axemanship, but I'm certainly no ace snow-climber. I'm thinking of something similar (but different from) the Bailey Range Traverse. The picture in my mind makes me prefer early season, but I wonder if on the ground, I'd be more comfortable in, say, September. ------

In early July I solo-hiked minor traverse from upper Lena Lake to Putvin trail in ONP. Obviously snow made it easier on low-angle terrain, (though obscuring way-trails) but crossing a quarter-mile, 30-degree snow pass gave me slight paws. Seems there's NW consensus that snow is preferred. But Steve Roper's guide to off-trail routes in Sierra strongly advises snow season avoidance, for safety. I may do more ambitious solo ONP trip next summer & wonder if its better to wait for more melt-out or go again in early season. ___________

So would you say the main route on Deception is sandbagged and the main route on Clark is over-rated in guidebook? Do you agree with their assessment that Clark is "best climb" in Royal Basin?

An unusual & confounding work of science. Here is Los Alamos Mountaineeing Club's somewhat morbid intro to member-article: "Stephen W. Attaway has produced a very complete mathematical analysis of rope systems used in rock climbing. This article was published in Nylon Highway, No. 41, a Special Publication of the Vertical Section of the National Speleological Society, and in the preceedings of the NATARS meeting of November 1-3, 1996 in Las Vegas, Nevada. This work is dedicated to Dr. Carlos Abad, Dr. Jane Tennessen, and Dr. Glen Tietjen who died from a fall in the Sandia's of 817 feet on June 23, 1996. http://www.losalamos.org/climb/zDWNLOAD.html --Dangerfield

ketch: So I mentioned the "Texas System" to a Canadian guide, and he sed, "Yeah, that's when a guy falls in a crevass, you shoot 'em." So maybe Selters should consider this? RIP Dangerfield

THis is an indispensible paper for engineers & rock climbers I picked up from gunks.com poster. It analysis "safe" run-outs. http://www.losalamos.org/climb/xRopes.pdf

How often is Clarke climbed? Olde Guidebook calls it "best in Needles."

still don't get the concept, really but can't learn climbing on message board. Are you saying your sketch of Texas Prussic sling worked out veyr well? How long is your cordelette?

Because it's much larger & I don't mind full-weight fabric either. The slightly higher price is worth while -- in particular for winter use, which some here have scoffed at....Both tents are bomber in high wind, though only when banked with snow or perhaps rocks---though not the very best.

Aren't down jackets almost just a commodity? I found my NF Nuptse on the sidewalk in Jersey City. Maybe I haven't been keeping up with the weights, but by the time I need it weight becomes borderline hopeless.

Not bad. He's a good writer on Metolius product Web site and I hear from Canadian clients & guides that he's a fine fellow. I wonder when Babe of Everest will do a lecture tour. (forgot name but featured on this site). Does she have an accent?

Oyeh--! So complicated. I like the sketch by Mr. Harpell tremendously!!! But gee whiz, is my cordelette spectra?

No. I carry prussic slings that are old and slightly suspect for the unlikely rope ascent while cragging. I also carry a cordelette for anchors. I want to ditch at least one of the slings I carry for prussickking and use cordelette instead. Also, I want to understand how the cordelette can be used as prusik in other self-rescue situations when you might need an extra.

I can certainly tie the knot, but how to rig it with 8-10-foot cordelette, that I frequently carry anyway for anchors?

Maybe this is properly "Newbie" material, but I'm trying to figure out how to use a cordelette as prusik. Some Canadians recommended using cordelettes in crevasse rescue, which I comprehend only slightly. I'm now wondering if one could tie one up for ascending a rope in a pinch. -------

Neither are extremists as you pose them. Moore distrusts wealthy people & is slightly demagogic and Hannity is something like Rush Limbaugh without ? drugs.

http://gusa.site.yahoo.net/mountain.html