Dane

I use both on a regular basis. And hopefully this will help. Better check the weights yourself. Out of the box the BD is lighter. Grivel published weights are typically without the bott. BD is very careful to publish their actual weights including the bott. What is listed below I weighted and is accurate. Grivel G12 ful bot 35.6oz Stainless Sabertooth full bot 34.2oz Stainless Sabertooth full bot with Petzl bail & heel 30.2oz Stainless Sabertooth no bot with Petzl bail toe and heel 28.4oz Stainess Sabertooth. Neve heel, no bots with Petzl bails 25.4oz More actual weights posted here: http://coldthistle.blogspot.com/2010/04/weights.html While at first glance they are similar in design and performace they are not. The BD has an extra set of down points and it makes a noticable difference on varied terrain. That said I really like the Grivel on mixed, likely because I have used them there a lot. And I like to think the Grivel front point design has some advantages. That is only speculation but they certainly stay sharp a long time. More here: http://coldthistle.blogspot.com/2010/02/these-freakn-pons.html Fit? I use Petzl front bails on both of these crampons for a better fit. I also like the Grivel for fit on my single boots, especially the heel. It took Petzl bails and the asymetrical bar to get a better fit than that in the BD (BD is in the process of going to a thinner front bales) The BDs will fit anything but are a bit awkward without some work. No question the BDs fit my dbl boots better out of the box. Grivel's fronts don't fit a wide boot (dbls) very well. (boot size is a 45) And Jon's thread from last year. http://cascadeclimbers.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/966335/Re_New_vs_old_BD_Sabertooth_cr#Post966335 Price? Price being equal, I think the stainless BD Sabertooth offers a better value and better performace between the two. At 1/2 retail price I'd likely take what was on sale. Few will ever wear either pair out.

Nothing terribly hard but my partner used a pair of BD hybreds to solo 4 pitches of this last winter. And he has the choice of climbing on any crampon he chooses as his job. House and Anderson on Nanga Parbat. House photo. Hybreds work fine at any level of techncal difficulty. They can have some distinct advanatges and can be more secure and easier to put on and take off in some instances than a bale as long as you take the time to fit your boots correctly. A proper fit in either style binding is the key. It is worth noting that few if any modern crampons fit boots now as well as earlier fully adjustable rigids did. Those old rigids used straps to attach the crampons to the boots and a perfect crampon fit to the boot sole. That system put up many of the first WI6 routes around the world. Rigid soled boots have allowed the manufactures to fudge a bit on crampon fit. Clip-ons are dependant of boot soles for fit. Front and rear bales vary in size and how they fit as do the boot toes and heels. Crampon boot interface can determine the performance of the crampon almost as much as the crampon design. Don't assume a factory set of wires front and back are always the best setup for your specific set of boots. The crampon companies are continually rethinking the crampon bales to better match the boots as the boot sole designs change. Classic example where a hybred might well be a better answer. As long as you have front points and a reasonable fit to your boots I've found that the ice tools you choose will have a much bigger influence on what grade you climb at comfortably than crampons. I also have found that beyond both sets of tools the boots I use on ice can have as big of impact as the tools.

This could well be the trip of a life time. Good luck following an amped Powderhound for the week Over Thanksgiving??...you bastard!

I figure we could all toss in at least one used coat...that would make almost 20K people warmer this winter. How hot would that be?!

I don't know.....let me think on that..awhile... But I do like this one..EB down hoody...bought it on a lark the other day at 30% off. Gotta go back and get another for the better half now. In the right conditions...dry and cold....it is a nice piece of gear. Makes a great pillow as well! It it nice enough maybe Narrona made it?...probably not though. And retro cool if you have a long enough memory The I see Whittaker has the XV on sale for $200...down from $299. Which is a lot more coat for the money than the Narrona. And finally in the same weight class as the Narrona ($350 this year down $30.) the EB Mtn Guide Jacket looks pretty good at $200 on sale. It desevses a picture but ED is uncooperative http://www.eddiebauer.com/catalog/product.jsp?ensembleId=37546&&categoryId=27376&categoryName=FIRST-ASCENT-MENS-INSULATION&pCategoryId=27373&pCategoryName=FIRST-ASCENT-MENS&gpCategoryId=27372&gpCategoryName=FIRST-ASCENT&catPath=~~categoryId=27376~~categoryName=FIRST-ASCENT-MENS-INSULATION~~pCategoryId=27373~~pCategoryName=FIRST-ASCENT-MENS~~gpCategoryId=27372~~gpCategoryName=FIRST-ASCENT&viewAll=y

A worthy event. Not a huge savings. But 20% off might help you tag something worth while in the First Ascent gear. http://www.eddiebauer.com/EB/One-Warm-Coat/index.cat Seattle (Nov 19-21)

It's going to be gooooooooooooooooddddddddd

GOD willing and we don't have another valcano Photo courtesy of Jon Griffith: More here: http://www.alpineexposures.com/blogs/chamonix-conditions/1529242-late-to-say-im-sorry-aiguille-verte

Dishman, everyone else does.

Gamma MX is no feather weight. It is heavy these days for what is available and offering similar protection. Few are more durable. Good winter shell...too warm for me during the summer months. Gamma MX Hoody. Material:Polartec Power Shield, Schoeller Dynamic Waterproof Rating:Water resistant Core Venting:No Pockets:2 Hand, 2 chest, 1 arm Seam Taped:No Powder Skirt:No Hood:Yes Zip-in Compatibility:No Weight:21oz (595g) Recommended Use:Climbing, hiking, backpacking Manufacturer Warranty:Lifetime

And me with not a single peice of Gortex that I use in the mtns? I want either stretch or insulation. All have to be breathable and still cut the wind. Last thing I require is 100% waterproof. The majority of the Gamma MX is made of Polartec Power Shield.

Exactly what jackets are you comparing it against? Hooded or unhooded version? You can buy a hoody for $25 at Costco that is very similar in look at feel. But I don't want to take that jacket out on the icefields mid winter. Most of the major players now make something similar at a lower price point. For good reason as the materials used and fit aren't as good as Arcteryx. Add the knock offs like Costco and it might be hard to see the difference in the store if you don't care to look past the price tag. I have lots of choices in clothing. I bought my first Hoody MX version in '03 or '04 and the jacket literally went on evey alpine climb i did until early last winter when I passed it on to a buddy in still decent condition and bought a new one.

"they're behind the curve these days and all their gear has ben surpassed" Seems to me Arcteryx, RAB and MTN Hardware have some of the most innovative, lwt and effective outdoor clothing currently available. Pays to shop price on them but also well worth the effort. Not like I care what anyone else wears, 'cuz I don't.

Yes Mike it is magical..works well in way worse weather than you might expect. I've used mine many times in nasty mid winter icefield conditons as my only shell garment and never been dissapointed. But truth is the Gamma is out dated now. Much lighter and better pieces available although you have to give up a good bit of the stretch to achieve that at the moment. Atom Lt and Atom come to mind as better pieces on the cold end (-15/-20C) of the Gamma usefulness. There was a time I never thought I'd be without a Gamma Hoody for winter climbing..they really are that good. The Gamma is stretchy, very durable, wind resistant, and warm for it's weight and dries easily. Ebay prices can be almost 1/2 for new garments with tags.

What' up? Some how you must have offended my delicate sensibilities here on CC.com Email and mailing address still work..prices haven't changed. Good time to send it over.

If you can't make a show in person, check out Colin's blog. And ask MTN Gear to sponsor a show! Lots of cool stuff here http://colinhaley.blogspot.com/2010_06_01_archive.html "Colin Haley photo of Bjørn-Eivind Årtun on their new route, Dracula, Mt Foraker, June 2010."

Good luck on the recovery! Glad you still have both feet :-)

Great resource...thank you!

Nate, that is great info. Just what I need for comparisons. How long was your new route?

Thanks Alex. I already make a BD pick that is very hard to break. They make a great mixed or waterfall pick. What I working on now are not for one or two pitch stuff but more appropriate for really big mixed routes in the great ranges in a very lwt style. As we have gotten a few seasons on what were are producing now I am looking at another step up in durability both for materials and design.

The right alloy should do it. Thanks for the offer on the photos. http://coldthistletools.blogspot.com/

Thanks Fargo! One route 4 picks? Multiple routes with 4 picks? Cool looking mtn and nice write up on your new route. Reason I am asking is I am thinking about making a pick so hard it can't easily be sharpened, which also means it can't easily be dulled.

Dead horse? Ya, at least for me and a gazzillion others who use BD tools and have good luck with them. Before posting stuff you have little clue on, it might help to read the link on Will's web site and find out just how old those particular BD picks are and what has been done in the past 5 years by BD to improve their picks. BD has also intentionally kept the same pick/head interface in use for 20+ years now. Which means any yahoo can bolt up a 20 year old, well worn pick, break it and claim foul. Or much easier than actually climbing, just post someone's old picture to imply the same. Petzl on the other hand eliminates the idiot factor by changing head and pick designs on an pretty regular, 4 or 5 year basis. Not so easily clear cut when you actually know the details on both major manufactures. You are new here, welcome. But how about staying on topic now? I am looking for specific info based on personal use of well worn picks. Good look at a well worn set of Quarks in the gallery here: http://www.shiningwall.com/en/episode1_en.htm#

Ah, Tradman's picks from '07 that were replaced on warrenty by Belcourt. Tradman himself and the picks that "never touched rock". If you want more info on a dead horse look here. http://www.gravsports-ice.com/icethreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=6611&page=1 I was looking for picks that had touched a lot of rock, enough to wear them out. Petzl and BD..seen both totally trashed on mixed but looking for documentation and photos. More like this...after 29 pitches of Alaskan granite and mixed. Photo by Graham Zimmerman...more here: http://huntingtonsouthface.blogspot.com/

I am looking for well worn pick pictures, and if possible some kind of description of their use to get into that condition. A picture with something like, "50 pitches of hard mixed" or "new when we started up the Cassin" would be good. Thanks!