Dane

Good point, no question, closed cell foam swells at you go high. If that is the inner you choose you have to think about it and manage your sock thickness to adjust for it. Not always that easy to do when your brain is fried, you are exhausted and you have cold feet.

This is an interesting read. I likely know the sales person pretty well. I know the original poster too. I have seen and had similar conversations here with Eddie @ Feathered Friends when we mutually disagreed in a generally friendly manner. Seems to me there is a HUGE gap in communication left untouched. Some where retail has decided to "define" how their products are used and by whom. Retail customer has every right to bitch about their personal experience. And I have the privledge of shopping where I prefer......which is generally some place other than where the management or sales staff uses the word "cocksuckers" in a public forum. Call me old school. And the local retail stores wonder why they lose sales every day to the Internet. Ya, there is a disconnect for retail....any retail. The CUSTOMER is always right. Once you forget that your business is on the way to the grave. Enjoy the ride Hey Mark, I own more pins than FF and REI combined has on the wall. You want to climb something on Index that requires a pin and a hammer not only am I happy to sell you what you need but tie in with you to use them. May be not everyone's game but just how hard was that people?

Glad you have enjoyed it. It is fun for me as well. FWIW the Nepal Evo is one of the very best alpine/ice boots around if it fits you well. And it seems to fit most. I love mine. Scarpa Mt Blanc is in the same enviable catagory.

FWIW..I keep hearing this, "if your feet swell at altitude" thing...not just in your post. I climb everything in the same size boots...same boots I'd take to Denali or Nepal or the Alps are the same boots I'd take to Chair peak locally or Banff for a week of water ice. I have different models for different applications (really cold weather, steep ice, long walks and hard climbing or just hard mixed, short of a fruit boot) but the fit is generally the same. My suggestion is rent or borrow boots until you know the kind of fit you want, then try everything on till you find a boot that fit you and the purpose you want them for. Here is a example. I tried on some boots yesterday the manufacture promote as a lwt mixed boot. They fit me exceptionally well. But the sole stiffness and the crampon attachemnt points made them worthless for my intended use. Huge dissappointment. The best fit won't over come the use just as a bad fit will make the best boot useless.

Hi Jim! "Would you mind expanding on the "moving belay" comment?" Pictures should cover it Photo courtey of http://colinhaley.blogspot.com/ no rope and a moving belay "is it meant to convey the idea that if you fall and the tools are stacked vertically the stretchy umbicals are ok for a minor fall?" None of the commercial umbilicals are INTENDED to hold a fall. But all of them (3 different brands) have to date held more falls than I can count off hand. Umbilicals can do many things....they keep your tools attached to your body, hold a slip or a leader fall on a short leash, back up belay anchors or actually are the belay anchor until you can tie directly to your axe/axes if it is required or better yet a set of screws. I don't normally weight my umbilicals as anchors or climbing but have done just that while taking out screws on a TR while seconding. And I have put full body weight on them with my axes sunk and slack on the main belay anchor. The key to how you use your own umbilical system is to know their strength/test numbers and use them accordingly. Hopefully that helps.

Good stuff Julian..thanks. Funny that I am likely the last guy to notice the issue.

I really rely on my umbilicals. As much as they are a moving belay for me I also have come to rely on them to retain my tools while climbing leashless. On the occasions I do climb without umbilicals I am very careful to watch where my tools are all the time and that they are securely placed. And I don't worry about my partners kicking or bumping them off the climb. May be I should be more concerned all the time.. more here: http://coldthistle.blogspot.com/2011/01/umbilicalssomething-to-think-about-and.html

Vern, I may try but getting hold of Neoshell is near impossible at the moment and I'd have to find something really special to get me to cough up for the Goretex Active shell. We'll see.

Props to Westcomb...some amazing stuff they are doing.

You know the majority of the lifts close in April right?

Dbl rap tat on the tree sucks.. Got an extra 56" This is the 5 pitches we cimbed but obviously with much less ice. Pitch 6 looked very close to being climbable to me (likely was) on the far left. Easy enough to make the pitches longer or shorter as there are many benches between the steps. We just did what seemed natural and found chains. Pretty obvious. Kinda like Professors in Baff but a little steeper over all and out in the air a bit by comparison. The first pitch was by far the longest but not 60m. Raps were all chained except for the tree mid route.

Hey Evan, I'm now using a Atom SV and a Atom LT as a combo which seems to work very well for my own use.

We did 5 pitches..which I'm told is the "normal" route. They probably tell all the hackers that to keep 'um off the good stuff. 6th pillar was a little sketchy after the chinook went through. My host hadn't heard of anyone doing it recently. Give it a week or so and I suspect it would be good as well.

Trip: SLC Utah - Stairway to Heaven Date: 1/23/2011 Trip Report: Every time I am lucky enough to visit SLC I get a terrible urge and want to move there. If you wonder why...it is always sunny when visit and you can ice climb, ski and ride your road bike all in the same day if you were really ambitious. (well every time I've been here anyway And there are a few locals that actually do such things. This is Stairway to Heaven in boney conditions and light for the grade right now on the first 5 pitches.(thankfully!) Here is a quick look at what the locals do before going to or after work...the bastards! Ad this is just the "junk" ice around the city. Cool thing about OR? There are plenty of rope guns running around you can put to work More photos/info here: http://coldthistle.blogspot.com/2011/01/swth-or-slc-metro-ice.html http://lamountaineers.org/NAC/browserf/climbs/stairut/beta.htm http://www.thebackcountry.net/bb/viewtopic.php?p=3155&sid=78c5e5114c418e43657f8f77c5980fa4 http://cascadeclimbers.com/trip-reports/ice/utah-provo-canyon-stairway-to-heaven---provo-canyon--1-22-2008-3201/ With no avi danger this one (and a few other road side attractions) might actually me worth the drive for us. Gear Notes: The usual for the grade and full length rappels. Locals seem a little poor so take some new tat along to reinforce the anchors...seriously. Approach Notes: 10 min approach with the highway below and up to 10 pitches later in the winter.

I had a chance to chat about this again this moning with Polartec reps. Seems one thing everyone (all material manufactures) is missing is the ultimate DWR. Also rechecked, anything out there at the moment in Neoshell is a preproduction sample. Interesting feedback but nothing I would want to judge the finished product by.

ha, some funny answers here. Thanks for the comments though Bench grinder, no gloves and a bucket of water will easily do it, no harm done. You'll know when the pick is getting too warm. BTW nothing special in the early BD aermet picks. They are very thin, climb ice well but will break easy enough if you take them mixed climbing. dane now in denver for 7 hrs

I have a ton of info but I'm in the airport on the way home. More later. http://polartec.com/shelter/polartec-neoshell/

Anything out there now in Neoshell are preproduction prototypes. Neoshell can be laminated to any backing. So it depends on what your friend's prototype was backed with as to just how well it works. I've seen half a dozen versions here at the OR show and have a buddy who has been climbing in several totally different versions. He is a jaded industry rep among other things and not overly easy to impress. His comment when I asked.."it's the missing link". And he has nothing to gain from the product professionally. One of the manufactures sewing the stuff, a guy I trust, walked me through his own climbing system and Neoshell was a major player in that. He sent me to the Polartech booth to look further. Later that day I find out a buddy has been testing prototypes for a year now. Only a few companies have bought into Neoshell as of yet but I suspect others will quickly follow. I've not used Neoshell myself but am anxious to do so. If the sales hype matches the actual results it will be impressive.

I like the new BD gridlock.

Buy any style you want but make the material Polartech Neoshell...no one else even playing the same game. Seriously!

Buy any style you want but make the material Polartech Neoshell...no one else even playing the same game. Seriouly!

I find that even at 180 it is an issue. And it has been a wile since I have seen 180:) I like verts but only on cold hard ice or hard alpine ice.

Neoshell should be avialable from several manufactures this spring. Check out Westcombs stuff...it rocks! Likely summer or fall for them though. Might be worth the wait. Difference on 'pons? Depends on what you are climbing to be honest.

http://coldthistle.blogspot.com/2011/01/outdoor-retailer-show-slc-2011.html

Great thread, thanks Jake for the link. Interesting in that we climbed that same route less than a week previous to the accident and before the temps bottomed out. We had wet, soft, hero ice. Some times this stuff just plain gets scary. Daniel pulling the crux. Looking down at Carlos just short of the first belay.