minx

kevbone, dude, i just saw this thead. what a laugh. who cares what people post about their climbing or how much? i haven't climbed anything interesting in a couple of years and i haven't climbed anything at all in months. most of the shit i climb isn't going to raise anybody's eyebrows so i don't post about it unless it's relevant to a particular conversation. lots of people here never post about what they climb but they do climb. how the hell did most of them end up here? including you? i'd encourage anyone to post a TR about anything. who cares if it's das toof? perhaps a note about approach conditions is pertinent to someone else. perhaps there is a humorous tale to be told and the climb in particular doesn't matter. perhaps the tooth seems like a serious objective to a new climber and they really want a certain bit of info. no matter, you don't have to read the TR if you don't care. i read most of them and love it b/c it's little smidge of the mtns while i'm doing something more mundane. but if you don't want to, don't. spray away...the more the merrier.

that's a great piece of art! thumbs up to JH for creating it and thumbs up to alpinfox...i'm jealous.

i think if you could substitute the name "Mt Hood" for the word religion in this thread and the two thread would be about the same.

KK- i note that you still have not offered an answer to the question.

NO Has it discovered there isn't a God?? NO it's tough to prove a negative.

nice perspective.

seahawks, i don't understand where you arrive at the conclusion that i had discounted it before you even started. i interepreted the data differently than you. i took the time to read it and think about it. i did not discount it before it was presented. of course, my bias is to look for the counter explantion to "god". your bias is to take it as proof of "god". either way, i did not discount it out of hand. it simply isn't a compelling argument to me. for that, i'm sorry. i truly wish it was. over many thousands of years, things we once could not understand, we have gained the knowledge to comprehend. stories like this, for me, fall into this category. it can't fully be explained...yet. it doesn't, however, present itself in a way that makes me think that there is no explanation at all.

seahawks- i appreciate what you see in your example. i also appreciate the impact that it may have on you. however, again, this was all controlled and dictated by human intervention. while i find it fascinating that she can so vividly describe the scene, i am no more ready to attribute it to "god" than i am to put on pointe shoes and become a prima ballerina. i certainly can't explain it but it seems likely that there is a medical explanation for it. i've heard of similar tales before. while this may be a common description of people who are in fact near death, it does do anything to prove the existence of god. i would think that images of loved ones wouldn't be too surprising if one were about to die. nor does the concept of "light". i've seen that kind of thing when coming around from anasthetic and a concussion. seems like a function of disruption of normal brain activity. the desire not go into the light (or die) seems like a base animal reaction to me. that's just me, the other side of the coin if you will.

ahh...isn't that cute. kk types out an overplayed and trite bumper sticker. kk--fatal flaw in that little scenario is that we know Nietzche existed. all we know about god is that you believe in it, making god no more real than any other figment of your imagination. you'll find out if God is real or not someday. as will you. the good news is that if you're right, i'll be pleasantly surprised. the bad news is that if i'm right, you won't even get to be disappointed.

seahawks, i'm being genuinely open, knowing that my opinion on the topic will act as bait. i'm not sure i've ever actually seen documentation of brain dead people coming back. i know that a few folks that they had very limited function, in comas, have come back. People with no pulse/heartbeat do make it back from time to time. 'spose it could be true. however, i'd be inclined to credit the recovery it to the medical professionals not god. i'm pretty sure this isn't happening to someone who keels over dead in their living room.

ahh...isn't that cute. kk types out an overplayed and trite bumper sticker. kk--fatal flaw in that little scenario is that we know Nietzche existed. all we know about god is that you believe in it, making god no more real than any other figment of your imagination.

my question is not rhetorical. i was interested in the answer, KK. i quoted gforce b/c my question was directed at him. yes it was in public for all to see but you didn't even bother to answer the question. of course, i will answer your question. although the answer should be obvious. i would like to have waited until g-force answered my question but since you've raised the challenge: the answer is: nothing. atheism has done nothing for me. how could it? it is not a belief system or a religion or anything other than a description. it describes my lack of belief in a deity. what exactly would you expect a description to do? in a broader sense, my lack of belief forces me to be very self reflective and self reliant. i've got no one to blame but myself. i don't see things that happen in my life ...good or badd... as god's will. they're my doing and i'm responsible for them. i end up in the mountains in the middle of the storm...oh shit. it's not god's will. it's the weather. i'm either prepared to survive and cope with it or i'm not.

let me just add that i am truly fascinated by religion. the truth is that i WANT to believe. i'm in some ways envious of those that do believe. it would be so nice to have that crutch when things suck. that's how i see religion, a tool for those less fortunate, as a coping mechanism when trama happens, as survival too for the day to day grind. unfortunately, no matter how hard i try, i just can't "believe", don't have "faith" in "god", haven't been able to find it real in any way. perhaps by my inability to buy into the story of some unseen deity/creator, i cheat myself out of those perks. i keep thinking that someone, somewhere will say something that helps me understand and believe in religion. instead, i'm plunged further into my atheism each time i encounter these discussions. i find myself more and more in the camp that doesn't believe that faith will help us through the bad times. i don't believe that there is a heaven when you die, nor a hell. i don't believe that religion will give me peace when things are difficult or help me find the answers. i don't believe some diety has predetermined my fate. i certainly think that saying that "god won't give you more than you can handle" is bunk. i believe that i have to figure out how to solve my own problems. that i can irrevocably screw things up and no amount of prayer is going to fix it. i believe that people get more than they can handle all the time and head right off into the deep end. i believe when things suck, they just suck and the only comfort to be had is getting through it. i believe dead is dead.

just curious, what exactly has jesus done in your life? i know he sends me spam from time to time but that's about it. being dead and all sort of limits what he can actually do. what has atheism done for yours? or Buddha, or whatever... please don't answer the question with a question. that's such a weak red herring. your response has a couple of serious flaws. a) the question was not directed at you and b) you didn't even bother to answer it. please try again, then perhaps I will answer yours. oops, my post had spelling flaws.

just curious, what exactly has jesus done in your life? i know he sends me spam from time to time but that's about it. being dead and all sort of limits what he can actually do.

BREAKING NEWS Zsa Zsa's husband: I might be baby's dad By NOAKI SCHWARTZ, Associated Press Writer 32 minutes ago LOS ANGELES - The husband of actress Zsa Zsa Gabor said Friday that he had a decade-long affair with Anna Nicole Smith and may be her infant daughter's father. The claim by Prince Frederick von Anhalt comes amid a paternity suit over Smith's 5-month-old daughter, Dannielynn. The birth certificate lists Dannielynn's father as attorney Howard K. Stern, but former Smith boyfriend Larry Birkhead is waging a legal challenge, saying he is the father. "If you go back from September, she wasn't with one of those guys, she was with me," von Anhalt told The Associated Press in an interview Friday. He said he would file a lawsuit if Dannielynn is turned over to Stern or Birkhead. Von Anhalt, 59, and Gabor, 90, have been married for more than 20 years. Gabor, a onetime sex symbol and star of such 1950s films as "Moulin Rouge" and "Queen of Outer Space," has been in declining health in recent years and suffered a stroke in 2005. She was partially paralyzed in a car crash in 2002. Von Anhalt, who is Gabor's eighth husband, said he and Smith first met in the 1990s when Smith was still married to elderly oil tycoon J. Howard Marshall II. He said Smith approached him and Gabor at the Plaza Hotel in New York. "She was a very big fan of Zsa Zsa and wanted to be like Zsa Zsa," he said. "She wanted to be a princess." He said the two started an affair soon after, meeting over the years in Los Angeles, San Francisco and New York. For much of that time, he said, Smith urged him to make her a princess like his wife. But short of divorcing the actress, he said the only solution would have been adopting Smith. Von Anhalt said he did consider that and even filled out adoption papers, but Gabor refused to sign them.

i should've posted a diagram!

i noticed ... and i didn't care. and.. so was i

So why can't they figure out how we work? Or do they know how and just feign confusion? we know, we just don't care. ooh. spicy! foraker-- men are non-verbal but they draw nice diagrams, chart data, and reference their sources so they're not very difficult to figure out. women learn everything they need to know about men in the 7th grade--the boys were always waiting to see what we had to make in home ec and taste test it. in health class they provided us with the schematics (ie. instruction manual) for operating the tool (ie. men) and in language arts class the boys always needed extra help. seemed pretty clear even back then -- there's an on/off switch, they can be motivated by food but talking will get you nowhere.

So why can't they figure out how we work? Or do they know how and just feign confusion? we know, we just don't care.

don't worry, starbucks will evolve and their coffee will be better than mcdonalds

Sweet, where DID you get that Rhino, Boner? It's so utilitarian, it, like, works with ALL of your "jokes". i think you mean "joke"

hmmm...i always thought arch put plenty of action into it.

did you say something?

you mean men? they're not really a curse, a bit of a hassle sometimes but not a curse