billcoe

David: Lets get together sooner as opposed to later hey? Oh, BTW, we do take out for pizza, call with your address and we'll all come over to your house and take out. I settled on the Thurs special 2 for $2 big macs at the 82nd st. McDonalds after climbing. Very sickening. But good.

I didn't know you were in the Teamsters or Longshoremans Union! I also do not know why you would find it interesting that I would not ask about spraying but would about bolting. I appreciate your viewpoint about not spraying. I thought I addressed all this but let me try again maybe a different way. -Bolting- Anyone who thinks that they have the right to just walk up and put in a bolt, into a place where they have never been AND ARE NOT NEEDED, in a publicly owned area that has been climbed without them there for many, many years with gear anchors pretty much is saying they don't give a flying f*K what everyone else thinks. They're going to do it just because They want it done. Which is not only pretty damn selfish, but is pretty much giving every other climber, who may feel differently, the same (or better depending whom you ask) justification for yanking them out. You can peruse this site for some real strong opposing viewpoints on bolts and their use to get a feel for it. This argument/discussion is always on many of the threads on this site so you won't have to look far. I am soliciting opinions to see if the consensus is that they are NOW needed at this specific location. I believe that they are: see my first post. -Vs- -Spraying- See Letsrolls post above if you wish to find that realization and that answer about spraying. The .00001 part he mentions. I did not forsee anybody not wanting it sprayed. It's that simple. Read that paragraph again if you still don't know why I sprayed there. Maybe it was selfish of me to have not discussed this beforehand, but I didn't see it as an issue at all. Sorry. Again, the county sprays the roadside up there twice a year with some heavy duty weed killer stuff you have to be licensed to touch, and they do not ask your view on this nor even tell you about it. The city will spray poison oak in public areas where they trip over it as well. They are that unconcerned about the fears that the products which they use are unsafe. They are of the viewpoint that it is safe if done correctly (ie, when dry is not hazardous to humans at all unless you eat it before it washes off), and poison oak elimination becomes easy and fast. If they are that unconcerned - I suspect you could see my point about hitting some isolated patches of Poison Oak. Nobody wallows in the Oak...? Right? So if I am understanding your post correctly, you will not do ANY? gardening esp handpulling noxious weeds, AND you don't want anyone spraying? You say I said I don't believe handpulling works, I did not say that, I am asking you to do it. Again, I see Jim do it, but I cannot touch the stuff and again Jim doesn't climb here - leaving you to pull it out. I am asking you to do this: thats all. Please re-read my posts. I really do not get why you still bring this up in light of what I said in my earlier post? You got some personal problem with me I should know about? We've know each other a long time, and you know I give people the straight up. As far as anyone complaining of irritants, unless you are running through poison oak, you shouldn't have an issue. But, it is expensive, and I don't like doing it, and I've only done it once, so no worries about me spraying going forward. But I take it you aren't gonna go out there and do not plan on doing anything out there or DO A GODDAMN THING BUT BITCH AT ME ?! That is what your post is saying. That you won't do anything about it. I find that upsetting and it pisses the fu*ck out of me too. Course, I could be wrong about that. Maybe I'm reading into your post. I will keep an eye on the top of Wisdom Tooth since there is no spray there, has been none that I've ever noticed by anyone ever, and lots of Oak, to see if you do anything. Wisdom Tooth is the chains 20-30' towards downtown from Birds of Paradise. I suspect a quick google will instruct you to pull it out anytime of the year. I would suggest you go right now and do this, as the Oak is changing colors and very easily seen. Leave the frikan chains alone and just pull the oak OK? Nobody even knows the chains are there but me and I just "outted" them. When you finish we'll have a go at it together eh? Primo route. Or it will be when you pull the oak AND the prickly thorny plants growing out of the crack. Show us all you put your money where your mouth is and that you truly and really care about the spray not being sprayed. Show us it's more than just sitting at your computer and complaining about someone trying to do something positive. I'm not kidding. Show us that you are walking the walking that you talk. Ask for help if you need it but why just pee on the community and lay a big downer down on everyone but offer nothing positive in return? It's that kind of attitude which leads to the problems at the Butte IMO. (IMO= In My Opinion) Otherwise everything you say has NO meaning to me, no point. ZERO, NADA ZILCH. Hot air. BTW, you might not have noticed this, but ya still didn't answer the main question. I'm thinking you do have a problem with the bolts. If you havene't been on Crackwarrior for a while (like me) go check it out. I can meet you up there to show you where it is. Also please tell me your real name.

Highlander = Dan BTW, WTF you been? Yer growing old dude....don't let it pass ya....

Dude needs some perma-draws Don.

Dan, have you looked specifically at the HB's? Otto, they cost more and weigh more. Work good.

Is that a route or a suggestion? I forgot the name of it anyway, can anyone advise if Peter is correct? Jeff, I'm pretty sure it's not churning, but it is one of the 12's up one of those gullies. (I'm so lame that I forgot the name of a route I FA'ed and named just last June, so maybe it is a suggestion ).

At least 95% of folks are awesome....glad it all worked out for you.

your middle one is bbq? not sure about the bottom one. similarly shitty day at smith: Correct on BBQ. It that the north face of Monkee? Nice view. No shortage of ropes! My moneys on Rudy getting the bottom one, and he'd know the grade and the number of bolts too I'd imagine:-)

That shits all legal down here in the land of the free ya Canadian. E: Bring it byotch, I'm drooling.

Mel, that was great being able to bang out about 10 routes after work with a great group of people, and I'll take a belay from you anytime! BTW, there was a 5.7/8 next to Fandango which I totally so forgot about. Next time!

Holy smokes, don't know a damn one of em! Love the pics though. Some of you may recognise this great dude, Stan Miller, on one of those bitterly cold Smith days where every sane person stayed home but Stan, Ujhan and I had the place to ourself. (Even the Great Blue Herons were trying to stay warm!) And you'll most likely recognize this one: easy money eh? But how about this one?

Letsroll, 1 word, 1 word for the graduate: HB. If I was only buying 1 set, I would buy these: HB Ascenders $79 for 2 - heavier duty and better trigger release than the Petzls. Joseph bought a set of the Nforces, they are heavier, and I don't like the way the teeth open, I could see myself f*ucking my skin up if I didn't have a wall glove on when taking it off a rope. BTW, I love the small offset nuts have several sets. The larger ones are OK, but ....eh....they're OK, some folks think they are special. I bought a set, if you want to see them, let me know and I'll drag them over and you can compare them heads on to the Petzls.

I wanted to vote for Sanjay.

It's Art - for sure. I like it better with the tinfoil.

You may be spending too much time wallowing in poison oak. I see you did not answer the question I really need answered, can I assume you do not approve of putting in bolts on top of Crackwarrior as well? Are you familiar with that route? I agree with your sediment about not wanting to see spray anywhere. I don't like doing it and it scares me to use that crap at all, but now it's been sprayed and I hope it all friggan dies. But I doubt it. Sooooo - if it comes back, especially in areas like top of White Rabbit and Crackwarrior: where it's right in your way and you MUST get right in it or just stop climbing, pack it in and go home and watch television and avoid the area all together, I'm asking you now Clif, will you pull it out so that it is removed without spray? Cause I'm wayyyyyy down with that, but no one has been doing it. I'm not joking or playing here. Opdycke pulls that stuff out with his bare hands all day long when he sees it at Beacon, but if I even hear the words "Poison Oak", it jumps on me and ruins my life. So since we don't want the spray, Opdycke doesn't climb here and I cannot get near it, I am asking you if you will do this. Here is your task list as I see it: Pulling the Poison Oak where it may (hopefully doesn't) come up, or which exists in these spots: * There is heavy, heavy poison Oak on top of Wisdom Tooth (the chains 20' to the West of Birds of Paradise), and Oak and thorny weeds are growing out of that fine crack. This had not been touched with spray on top or on the route. Start here. *Finish pulling the Poison Oak on the Crackwarrior path. *Top of video bluff where you sling the trees for anchors. *Top of White Rabbit where you sling the trees for anchors. *Top of Espresso where you sling the chain, I see folks sitting in that oak patch while they clip the chain. *Top of Blueberry where you set up the anchor, the Oak is growing all over up there. *Top of Silver Bullet. * There is heavy poison Oak growing out of that crack on Toothpick Buttress area about 25' left(East) of "On the Edge", and Oak and thorny weeds are growing out of the crack. This route has not been done, ever, due to the poison oak in the crack. The brush on top is very heavy and needs to be cut back as well. *Cut and remove or pull and remove the blackberry bushes back at the top of the tunnel descent entrance. *Cut and remove or pull and remove the blackberry bushes back at the top of the cliff breakfast cracks so that they do not force a mistep and a fatal fall off the path which is right on the cliff edge. As an aside, I'd stay off the grass at the Bible college cause they didn't get that perfect weed-free look without chemicals, and also do not walk on the side of the road up there as it appears ODOT or the county road crews spray maybe twice a year, and they do it real real heavy, with chemicals that you cannot buy off the shelf because they are so dangerous and must be licensed to use. Much stronger and more dangerous than the roundup I had. Please let us know the times you will be out there along with a basic plan and maybe some of us others can put in some time with you here or there to get this done. __________________________________________________________ There is no Poison Oak at the base of the cliff to worry over. *************************************************************** Meantime, if folks can stick to the real main question, and while you are out there, if you see someone you do not know, especially the non-computer climbers: ask their opinion on the Crackwarrior bolt issue and lets get this out in the public domain as much as possible. Please report back with your findings, esp. any negative ones. I think that a quick view of the top - if anyone has not seen it in a few years - will convince the most diehard traditionalist of the need, but still, it needs to be asked and discussed first. I agree with Markd, but will note that the top of this crack is far enough off the visible beaten track that most people do not even know where it is or that it exists outside of the guidebook.

I tripped over some Salmon Berries about last month wandering by myself in a lonely creek drainage @ the 2500' level in the high country that were the biggest I'd ever seen, ever. They were almost the size of golf balls. They were not correspondingly sweet, but that didn't stop me from eating every damn one I could gather. I suspect that they should be ripe at the 3,000-3500 ' level now. They looked like the ones on the right, lighter orange color, but over twice the size. A-friggan-mazing. Only saw 3-4 plants in that area, searched around for more..but alas.

Hope to see you then GT. Have a nice trip. If you have a real name BTW, feel free to use it. Sweet deal! Us bitches will be there.

I'm serious about no one getting hurt. It might be getting a little crowded. I wish I'd seen Davidheirs post yesterday as I'd bring an extra rope to fix on top for everyone getting safely to the tops of these climbs. -BUT- No worries, There is also a real, real safe walk down for anyone who doesn't need to be on top. It is the walking path which parallels the road heading east. As the road continues its climb to the top: this path, which is just off the road and in the woods to the north, (or left hand side as the road heads up), will gradually drop (as the road will gradually climb), walk on the path straight East until you are damn near staring at the freeway and are at the base of the hill, then take a left and parallel the freeway on this walking path, as you walk on the flat path heading North by NW, walk about 32-3 football fields length and if you look to the left and up, you will see us climbing on the cliff up there just do the easy walk up the hill and we'll all be together. If at any point you are looking at a steep hill or a cliff, you are not in the right place. This is an easy safe gently path to the base. Easy as pie! Anyone gets there late and needs to talk or help figuring this out, call me and I'll come get you or walk you through it, hook you up on rappel or whatever. God I sound like an old woman prattling on.... Shit...fuck it...I don't care, it's better to just say it. There ya are.

Great, as long as everyone is 100 percent perfect on belays. Melisa: to get here, drive up Fremont, past the cliffs (where the road is parelling 205 on the mapquest link). as you pass the last bible domes on the right, but before the road takes the hard right and heads to the top, park at the last parking spot on the right, you generally will see some cars here. Walk approx the 30' stright back to the cliff, take a 90 degree right turn at the cliff edge and follow the cliff for @ 60 feet. We'll be there. Mapquest Now a note of caution: people scramble unroped here to get to the top of the climb, and people have died doing it. You want to rope up to get to the top of these climbs, I'm down with that. Most of the bad shit that happens up there is due to bad belay skills and unroped slips on top. Both can and should be reduced as it's so fucking needless. Here's what this chick said about this very scramble at that very spot: Link to full thread

What the hell you talkin about? We all really care. We hear that this fucker controls some of our oil now, in fact they are our 3 rd largest import country for oil. Isn't this dude like Ceasear Chavez's brother or something? Where is this f*ing rat hole anyway? I think I remember it from risk, it's by Irkutz isn't it? Kamchetka?

For sure on the last sentence. But, Nofh Portland? Dude, gotta learn Ebonics as a second language in some places there. Too hit and miss although some places are great, I'll agree. Oh, I've lived in St Johns and still live in Nofh Portland (but real, real close in now). There are some amazingly cool neighborhods, like this Brand new overlook townhomes link - 1/2 a block from max light rail and a 15 min ride from downtown ...ON a BIKE! Great neighborhood. But there are other places..... Muffster, if the munchkins ski? Mt Hood meadows passes

Well, sorry all these pussies canceled on ya Tim, but I will say that my pissy excuse is that my finger hurts. In fact, both ping pong and typing sucks now. (spoken sotto voice -very high and in a whiney sound) In fact at work, Kev broke my damn my unbroken streak of wins and I'm like 2 of 6 today. Thats cause I fell off a stump and ran a rock through part of my hand out climbing, and then later sliced a finger the other night trying to notch some arrows for the lil fellas and had the blade part of the knife upside down...sigh...(ok it was getting dark and I was drunk a bit). Melisa is talking about getting out with us tomorrow, as is John, Ujahn, me, you, and Bri as a minimum. We should accommodate Mel with some easy routes and John and you with some harder ones ...I'm thinking Silver Bullet. You guys can take turns trying and falling off of Glenns route direct if you want something hard. Maybe 5.12 something? I reset the first bolt and tried to dig a small flat platform for you. Folks will be less likely to eat dirt if they miss the second clip:-) I want to hear what you think the grade really is, cause it's hard to say anymore for me. As you know from laughing at me last week. I cannot even get up White rabbit buttress with tension on toprope. I've been climbing mostly unrated stuff lately, so I'm curious what it really is cause I don't get out that much on real stuff. Silver Bullet good?

Tomorrow after work is out? Most likely Silver Bullet (assuming Melissa is there too) Cuba, WTF? Must have an interesting job. This being the internet thats all I'll say about that. See you tomorrow on Thurs or the next time you have time, pretty flexible. See, no crying or accusations here:-) is all good.

MF&@#XX@ Venti soy triple gingerbread latte half syrup no whipped cream grrrrrr

That's fu*ing bullshit: I call COVERUP! WE ALL KNOW it happened when Dru/G-Spotter changed his avatar to Decristo. Seriously, did you trip over the powercord and rip it outta the wall again?